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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:42 pm

Debbie Jevans confirms that any rogue or charlatan can buy a football league club mid-season and the EFL has no power to do anything at all except ask for some proof of funding which the rogue/charlatan can ignore for the remaining 5/6 months of the season. Incredible incompetence by the EFL.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:40 pm

The main issue is that any charlatan or rogue can buy any company, make short term money and then collapse the company.

As long as the rogue isn’t barred from being a director then by law anybody can buy a company and that is the main problem and that’s why I have sympathy for the EFL.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby kwambo » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:59 pm

Nice touch by Chichester. Have announced that they are going to donate some of the money received to the appropriate organisation trying to keep bury afloat
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:16 pm

Still listening to the Commons Select Committee

Greg Clarke, Chairman of FA (Chairman of EFL from 2010-2016), admits he finds the football creditors rule morally very difficult. The only defence is that if you pay the players then the club stays in existence and so people keep turning up to watch.

The EFL voted through the Salary Cost Management Protocol and Financial Fair Play in 2011. Have only had two administrations since - Port Vale and Coventry City. They took the view that getting rid of the football creditors rule would cause more insolvencies in football clubs. Discussed this on an annual basis.

Damian Collins (Chair) - Disagreed that the football creditors rule cause more insolvencies in football. It makes no difference. It just means that if a club goes into administration then unsecured creditors are treated equally. It might also make the players think twice about signing for a club in financial difficulty. An owner could be subsidising the payment of players' wages on not paying the security firm.

Greg Clarke - The SCMP/Financial Fair Play Rules were very successful. They were broken three times and we sued all three clubs. One paid £54 million in damages and the other two settled. In football, there will always be chancers who try to break the rules and you have to take them on.

Damian Collins: Wage/Turnover Ratios from Deloittes Report for 2016-2017 said average Championship wage/turnover ratio was 101%, League 1 87% and League 2 73%.

Debbie Jevans: We are confident clubs are working within the parameters.

Damian Collins: What info do they give you? What accounts do they provide?

Debbie Jevans: If they do not comply then they are under a transfer embargo. I will come back to you on Deloitte's figures. Bury FC was complying with financial requirements under Stewart Day but did not comply at all under Steve Dale.

Damian Collins: It seems that the rules that are there are not really enforced. The EFL needs to enforce its own rules.

Debbie Jevans: They are enforced because one club is no longer a member of the league. Lessons have been learnt and there appears to be an appetite for change. I believe there is a change in mindset. We need to control costs by way of looking at players' salaries and agents' fees.

Damian Collins: One of the lessons to be learnt is that the league should enforce its own rules.The EFL should enforce its own rules. How could a club like Bury be insolvent but still complying with the SCMP? If a club goes bust it is because it has spent too much money. The point of the rules is to stop these things happening. The only rule that seems to be enforced is that you either come out of administration or go out of the league. Fans of Bury FC will think that the EFL has failed in its duty.

Damian Collins (Chair): You do not need a QC to tell you that if you let someone buy a football club without proof of funding that you are storing up trouble for the future. You don't need a review to tell you that if clubs are not complying with the rules as they stand at the moment, that are there to keep them on the straight and narrow, then there is going to be a problem. One thing that should be part of the review is why the EFL decided not to enforce its own rules."
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:27 pm

part time pete wrote:The main issue is that any charlatan or rogue can buy any company, make short term money and then collapse the company.

As long as the rogue isn’t barred from being a director then by law anybody can buy a company and that is the main problem and that’s why I have sympathy for the EFL.


They could have easily changed their rules Pete to stop this happening by requiring prior approval of any new owner otherwise consent to play in the league can be immediately withdrawn. Nobody would then buy a football club without firstly making sure they had EFL consent although a rogue/charlatan/chancer who is only paying a £1 may take the risk and just try and blag his way through. The EFL in that case though should just suspend fixtures and require 7/14 days for all info to be provided otherwise you are expelled.

If the rogue/charlatan/chances was just after cash/assets then he might not be bothered about the club being chucked out.

A better solution would be for the EFL to have a golden share in every club in the EFL which gives them the right to take control of the club in certain circumstances and to then sell the club to a new owner within 2/3 weeks. If no new owner comes forward then the club is expelled and an Independent Regulator oversees the winding up of the football club including possibly selling assets to a new phoenix club. The new owner would be last in the queue for payment as a shareholder.

The EFL should also have rules preventing club's grounds being used as security for loans unless the money is spent on capital expenditure such as building a new stand or improving the ground.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:28 pm

There are lots of businesses where you are not allowed to buy the business/company without appropriate consents.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:52 pm

This was the big shocker today. Greg Clarke, Chairman of the FA, admitted that the FA did not get involved with Bury until 4 weeks ago after the club had gone out of existence. He points out that the FA is a stakeholder organisation run for its stakeholders. The leagues write their own rules and enforce them and the FA does not get involved.

Greg Clarke admitted that he feels a moral responsibility but it is not the role of the FA to enforce the EFL's rules and it does not have the power to do so.

Historically football has been suffered due to lack of co-operation between the leagues and the FA. We need to work together to devbelop a set up of joined up rules.

Damian Collins: Does the EFL actually check the estimated turnover submitted by clubs in their SCMPs? Some clubs have not even filed their own accounts. If the clubs are self declaring then there is a good chance the estimates submitted could be wrong.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby chip63 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:21 pm

Winding up order has been adjourned again.
Bury,s lawyers think they've paid too much tax :shock:

I didn't think they'd payed any.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Billy the fish » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:39 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:This was the big shocker today. Greg Clarke, Chairman of the FA, admitted that the FA did not get involved with Bury until 4 weeks ago after the club had gone out of existence. He points out that the FA is a stakeholder organisation run for its stakeholders. The leagues write their own rules and enforce them and the FA does not get involved.

Greg Clarke admitted that he feels a moral responsibility but it is not the role of the FA to enforce the EFL's rules and it does not have the power to do so.

Historically football has been suffered due to lack of co-operation between the leagues and the FA. We need to work together to devbelop a set up of joined up rules.

Damian Collins: Does the EFL actually check the estimated turnover submitted by clubs in their SCMPs? Some clubs have not even filed their own accounts. If the clubs are self declaring then there is a good chance the estimates submitted could be wrong.


So who actually are stakeholders ?? The clubs ?? Individuals ( without conflict of interest ) ??
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:17 pm

chip63 wrote:Winding up order has been adjourned again.
Bury,s lawyers think they've paid too much tax :shock .


This is one reason why the club ought to be put out of its misery, as despite not paying the staff their wages they were paying the tax element automatically to HMRC, therefore paying too much tax. How is that for logic?? In short they are saying to the judge, ‘Please give us more time as we are basically stupid?’. What about the wages they didn’t pay to people who needed the money?? What about the nearly £1 million missing from the loans taken out? Are their accountants and lawyers that incompetent that they didn’t see this happening?

Clowns, incompetents, leaderless buffoons. Day and Dale had the league, FA and countless fans at their beck and call and played them like a fiddle. If Bury FC were a lame animal it would have been dragged into a field and shot by now.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:50 pm

The DCMS Parliamentary Select Committee has concluded that the EFL should be made to pay reparations to Bury for a loss of earnings following the club's expulsion from League One. It also recommended staff and fans receive an apology from the EFL for its failings.

Why should the EFL pay reparations to a well known asset stripper like Steve Dale who is responsible for the club being thrown of the league? The club and the fans will not see a penny of it. Any reparations should be paid to the Bury phoenix club to help get them up and running.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50302522
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:10 pm

Who can agree with anything an MP says lately? They will changer their mind three times in the next week.

Perhaps it should be a condition of promotion that a club's spending is within 5% of the rules, it shouldn't be hard to calculate it before the last match of the season. If it was also a rule that a club exceeding limits by more than 15% was automatically relegated, I feel this situation would not occur very often.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Big yella » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:15 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Who can agree with anything an MP says lately? They will changer their mind three times in the next week.

Perhaps it should be a condition of promotion that a club's spending is within 5% of the rules, it shouldn't be hard to calculate it before the last match of the season. If it was also a rule that a club exceeding limits by more than 15% was automatically relegated, I feel this situation would not occur very often.

Or perhaps footballs authorities should show some genital fortitude and start dishing out proper punishment for rule breakers like rugby just has to its own and Europes reigning champions.

35 point deduction and £5million fine for breaching the salary cap.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Bolton have settled up with their former players. The football creditors rule strikes again.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... nightmare/
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:50 pm

A winding-up petition issued against Bury FC has been dismissed at the High Court. The relevant tax debt has been paid according to HMRC's lawyer.

Meanwhile a phoenix club called Bury AFC has applied to join the North West Counties League

"The North West Counties Football League on Tuesday received an application from a newly formed club, Bury AFC, for membership of the League for Season 2020/21. The application has been received as per the regulations of The National League System. The League will be working with the club, The FA and other interested parties in progressing the application. At this stage, we are reviewing the application and supporting documents.

The League's Board of Directors will meet to discuss the application and whether, as this is an application from a newly formed club, to support the application ahead of the FA deadline of 1st February 2020.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2019-1 ... dismissed/

https://www.nwcfl.com/news-articles.php?id=7980
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:03 pm

A 35 year old entrepreneur is also looking to buy Gigg Lane and set up Bury AFC. Not sure if it is the same bloke who has made the application to the North West Counties league. He has the support of Forever Bury. There is also a phoenix group of fans planning to set up another Bury AFC away from Gigg Lane, Very confusing.

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/18098 ... e/?ref=nuo
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bellwhiff » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:04 pm

Wish them well
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:51 pm

It looks like the Bury Phoenix club has applied to join the North West Counties League with a team called Bury AFC although the bloke who is trying to buy Gigg Lane has set up a company called Bury AFC Limited which Forever Bury have a 10% share in.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Spiritater » Wed Dec 18, 2019 6:52 pm

wish them well. it's a long road back from down there as Darlo, Hereford, Scarboro etc have found. i make it 5 promotions to get back to FL. the higher you go the harder it gets.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:35 pm

Jonathan Taylor QC has reported back to the EFL board on the EFL’s governance processes and structures (Governance Review) and the independent review into the circumstances leading to the withdrawal of Bury FC’s membership of the League (Bury FC Review).

Jonathan Taylor and his Review team reported to, and took instructions, from a Governance Working Group (GWG) consisting of Debbie Jevans CBE and Simon Bazalgette, the independent directors on the EFL Board, and three EFL Club Divisional representatives, being Nick Randall QC (Nottingham Forest, Championship), Mark Palios (Tranmere Rovers, League One), and Colin Garlick (Port Vale, League Two). The recommendations made in the report are from Jonathan Taylor and the GWG.

The EFL Board and the clubs were provided an overview of the reports today. The main conclusions seem to be:

GOVERNANCE REVIEW
1. The review proposed that three new independent directors be appointed to the EFL Board, with a specific responsibility to represent member clubs. The EFL Board seem to have shockingly already rejected this proposal and do not accept there is a need to make any changes to the EFL board.

"The majority recommendation was that these three new independent directors replace three of the six existing Club representatives on the EFL Board (three from the Championship, two from League One, one from League Two), with the other three Club representatives remaining on the Board. The minority recommendation was that none of the six existing Club representatives remain on the Board.

After careful consideration, the Board decided not to support any change to the current composition of the Board, as it believed this could undermine the objective of strengthening the relationship between the Board and member Clubs. EFL member Clubs expressed their support for the Board’s position on this matter at the meeting."


2. The review of governance structures has considered a wide range of issues including how members are represented, how decisions are made, and how rules are created and upheld across the League.

"After an extensive consultation phase, the report, which was provided to Clubs ahead of today’s meeting, recommended a number of changes to strengthen the EFL’s governance procedures, detailed below. These were endorsed by the Board following further refinement and received in principle support from member Clubs at today’s meeting. Where proposed changes require amendments to the EFL’s regulations or Articles of Association, the formal process for enacting these changes will now commence and is anticipated to be concluded at the EFL’s AGM in June 2020."

We will have to wait and see what these are when the report is published.


BURY FC REVIEW

Shockingly but unsurprisingly the EFL appear to be taking no responsibility regarding what happened at Bury.

"The EFL’s Board of Directors commissioned the Bury FC Review in September 2019 to review and assess the circumstances leading to the withdrawal of Bury FC’s membership of the League on 27 August 2019. In particular, the review considered the manner in which the EFL’s regulations and procedures, and the EFL’s policy in respect of insolvent clubs, were applied by the EFL to Bury FC, and to what effect.

In his report, issued to Clubs in advance of the meeting, Mr Taylor sets out in detail the chronology of events following the acquisition of the Club by Stewart Day in May 2013, its subsequent sale to Steve Dale in December 2018, and the eventual withdrawal of its membership of the EFL in August 2019.

After considering the steps taken by the EFL at each stage, Mr Taylor concludes that the League spent significant time and effort monitoring the situation at Bury FC and applying its regulations to try to force the Club and its owners to meet their commitments. He notes that while it can always be argued, with the benefit of hindsight, that more could have been done, any additional action would not have made any difference to the eventual outcome, which was ultimately caused by a lack of owner funding.

Under the terms of reference for the review, Mr Taylor was not required to make any recommendations regarding changes to EFL Regulations, However, his report makes a number of observations about potential changes which will feed into the ongoing reviews of divisional cost control measures provided for by the Profitability and Sustainability rules in the Championship and Salary Cost Management Protocol in Leagues One and Two, that are already being led by Clubs and the review of other regulations and procedures being led by the Board. It is expected that specific changes will be brought forward for ratification at the EFL’s AGM in June 2020.

The two reports will be published on the EFL’s website in due course."

Time for Parliament to intervene and appoint an Independent Regulator for Football.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:24 pm

Will Bury be allowed to join National League South?!! :shock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53555576
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:42 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Will Bury be allowed to join National League South?!! :shock:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53555576


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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:10 am

"On October 5, 2019, the burglars were disturbed while in the Cheshire home of Bury FC chairman Steve Dale. Watches worth between £300,000 and £500,000 were dropped by the intruders as Mr Dale's son gave chase and they left the property with only a £10 note."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-53615872
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:18 pm

The latest from Bury FC and Steve Dale. I assume the statement was written by Steve Dale as it is difficult to follow at times with a lack of punctuation, spelling mistakes and typographical errors. It reads like the rantings of a mad man scrawled in green crayon. :lol:

Bury's application to join the football pyramid in the National League has been rejected. It looks like he is hoping for Bury to be placed higher than Step 7 when they reapply for the 21/22 season. I think Bury AFC have been placed at Step 6 in North West Counties Division 1 North. They will be celebrating in the streets of Radcliffe :lol:

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/latest-st ... gust-2020/

"Firstly, we apologise to our loyal Fans for not keeping you updated as we wanted, we were advised to not give the FA any reason to reject our application so we maintained silence. Over 3 months ago, we submitted our application to the FA and furthermore our Lawyers requested a sit down to discuss the complexity of the Bury FC situation to avoid ambiguity and indeed lay to rest any concerns they may have. Some months later they acknowledged and with weeks to go till the deadline stated their willingness to have a conference call.

We had the call which was cordial, we requested a further meeting once matters had been digested and the committee advised they would come back to us, we heard nothing and our Lawyers prompted them as we were concerned having eroded 3 months to resolve any concerns, they were now eroding the last weeks which left no time to address very important matters that could affect our application.

On Tuesday we received an email outlining reasons not to allow our application, which turned out to be very matters we and our Lawyers had been trying to address with them for 3 months, none were an issue or a problem only time and the terms of their compliance were the governing factor.

In the future all these issues will be resolved and Bury FC will be back playing football at Gigg lane rest assured, our application for 21/22 season is being prepared now and will be chased monthly to avoid a repeat of this atrocity, lets hope because a further season has elapsed they don’t try to place us in tier 7, as leaving Division one we were supposed to get a high placing the following season as the demotion was the sentence

Also, to be clear about our Stadium, BURY FC own Gigg and it’s not for sale or is it being re-possessed.

Given Covid nothing is a given this season and Bury FC wants to wish all clubs well in these tying times, Football Clubs are the mainstay in many towns, they hopefully bring communities together and should be about the enjoyment of what happens on the pitch not the political subterfuge of the Governing bodies.

Clubs need support and help in these trying times, issuing point deductions like confetti, do they really believe that is the answer, there should be no rule books chiselled in stone in these testing times only survival tactics.

Many Clubs are on the brink of collapse and if Covid restrictions continue we will see a tsunami of Administrations and Receiverships, burying your head in the sand is not an option

Over the coming weeks we will advise of the goings on at Bury FC to secure its future.

Once again apologies for events but after 2O months of battling to save our Club we are more versed in the politics of Football than ever so better placed to face this war."
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