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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby adamstag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:08 pm

No, no and no.

Flout the rules and suffer the consequences - obviously it's sad for the fans but this can't be allowed to happen.

The club should be passed out of the football league as per their original decision and allow the conference to decide what to do with them.

Now that it's been established only 1 side will go down this season If the EFL were to reinstate Bury who's so say the team finishing 23rd wouldn't take league action - they'd be perfectly entitled to do so.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Stags 2002 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:20 pm

NorthLondonStag wrote:It says on the bbc that they are going to consult with the other clubs about whether Bury can come back into League Two next season.
If that did happen presumably we would be back to two relegation spots from League Teo


Yes it would have to be, it would be the equivalent of Bury being 1 of 4 teama relegated from league 1 with two teams coming up from the conference as normal.

Personally can't see League two teams getting behind it as it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:35 pm

NorthLondonStag wrote:It says on the bbc that they are going to consult with the other clubs about whether Bury can come back into League Two next season. If that did happen presumably we would be back to two relegation spots from League Teo


The EFL have only agreed to consult its members and have pointed out that it would need clear evidence of Bury's financial viability:

"...the only established procedure for entry to the EFL is through promotion from the National League as part of the wider football pyramid. There is no precedent for a Club to enter the EFL directly through an application for admission or readmission following withdrawal of membership. In the current circumstances, the process by which a former EFL Club would obtain re-entry to the league system in England is via an application to the Football Association. On consideration of that application, the FA would determine the appropriate League for entry, subject to them meeting the relevant entry requirements of that League.

Notwithstanding the above, and in acknowledgement of the extreme nature of the problems at Bury FC, the EFL Board had agreed it is appropriate to discuss the matter with member Clubs. This is a complex situation that raises questions of due process, precedent and fairness as well as financial implications. The EFL will consult with its Clubs over the coming weeks.

Prior to formal consideration by any league competition of an eventual application from Bury FC to return to league football, clear evidence would be required of the Club’ financial viability and its ability to fulfil its ongoing commitments."

The major problem for Bury is that Steve Dale still owns Bury with all its debts and liabilities including a £3.6 million mortgage on Gigg Lane so there is no football club to reinstate at the moment. The plan to reinstate Bury means that they have to acquire control of the football club and then show that they can meet all the relevant EFL financial requirements which resulted in their membership of the EFL being withdrawn. Furthermore if Steve Dale thinks there is any chance of Bury getting back in the EFL then he will put his asking price up by £1-£2 million.

Bury fans seem to have great difficulty accepting that allowing them back in League 2 would be extremely unfair to the League 2 team who would be relegated to make way for them who have paid their players and staff in full last season and this season. I'm sure if they were being relegated to the National League to make way for Oldham or Rochdale being reinstated in the EFL then their views might change on this matter. Let's hope its not the Stags!

I cannot see that there would be a majority of EFL clubs agreeing to Bury being reinstated. It might win some support with the larger teams in The Championship and League 1 as they may think it would create a precedent if the same happened to them but I imagine virtually all the League 2 clubs would vote against it. The truth is though that Bury cheated their way to promotion by playing players they could not afford to pay and so should not have been promoted to League 1 in the first place. They ought to have been relegated to the National League.

I'm surprised that Yeovil Town did not complain more to the EFL about being relegated to the National League when Bury and Macclesfield had not paid their players or staff.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby NorthLondonStag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:54 pm

I agree with all of the above and as I said all that it says is they are going to consult.

There aren’t any sanctions for not paying players, only for going into administration. As someone suggested elsewhere it might be sensible to introduce a sanction where if (say) a club hasn’t paid its wages in full within X weeks of the due date then there is a points deduction. It could also be made a condition of promotion that all wages are up to date at the end of the relevant season (failing which no promotion).

There’s precedent for a similar approach (or at least there used to be) for when a stadium isn’t good enough.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:51 pm

I would impose a sliding scale for points deductions for every month that wages are not paid within 7 days of the due date but I would also have automatic relegation for every team that has not paid its players and staff in full within 14 days of the end of the season including promoted sides (relegated teams demoted two levels).
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby adamstag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:16 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I would impose a sliding scale for points deductions for every month that wages are not paid within 7 days of the due date but I would also have automatic relegation for every team that has not paid its players and staff in full within 14 days of the end of the season including promoted sides (relegated teams demoted two levels).


Another option we discussed is any new owner has to pay a set period of months wages (say 3-6) upfront into an account to cover for such eventualities
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:27 pm

adamstag wrote:Another option we discussed is any new owner has to pay a set period of months wages (say 3-6) upfront into an account to cover for such eventualities


That would be a lot of dead money sat in the EFL's bank account. It might also make it difficult for fan run clubs such as AFC Wimbledon, Exeter City, Wycombe Wanderers, Newport County etc.

There should be an Independent Regulator who has strong powers of intervention who can come in and take over the running of the club to try and get it to break even before putting it up for sale to a new owner.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:40 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... r-49568307

Greater Manchester Police have launched a fraud investigation into Bury nearly two and a half months after the initial complaint. Who wants to benefit from this now being made public, possibly the local MP who is campaigning for Bury to be reinstated against all EFL rules?

I suppose we may be getting near an election as the shithousery politicians are coming out of the woodwork. Must be reading from the same ‘How to be an MP’ guide book that Meale had.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Bros » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:14 am

Would the EFL put this proposal forward if it was a newbie like Fleetwood or Crawley rather than a past fa cup winner
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:25 am

The Bury fans had a meeting last night. They seem to be split between spending their money on a legal challenge against the EFL and setting up a new phoenix club. The latter is clearly the better option in my opinion. They have already been advised that their legal case is weak and and the main person who would benefit would be Steve Dale (or the creditors of Bury FC).
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:52 am

They are obviously still in the denial stage.

I can't see what they hope to gain by a Legal challenge as they wont be allowed to compete this season no matter what happens. The likelihood is the challenge could drag into next season as well and that's another wasted year.

Surely they are better off starting again at whatever level they can manage and rid the club of Dale for good. They don't need an all singing stadium straight off and the money they save on legal fees (including those of the FA when they lose) could be put toward ground improvements when they reach a level when they need them. I'm sure the greater footballing community would give more to a Phoenix club than they will anything connected to Dale.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Jimstag » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:06 pm

Sadly the league has to stick to its guns here.

It’s a bit hypocritical to complain that rogue clubs and owners can behave how they like because punishments aren’t tough enough but then complain it’s too tough on the one league club that falls short.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Johnny Rotten » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:55 pm

After Bury’s expulsion from the Football League last week following huge financial problems, Pete Winkelman says MK Dons are losing £10,000 per day to run the club...


https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/sport/fo ... obKnRN0jEA
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby robeyre » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:23 am

Johnny Rotten wrote:
After Bury’s expulsion from the Football League last week following huge financial problems, Pete Winkelman says MK Dons are losing £10,000 per day to run the club...


https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/sport/fo ... obKnRN0jEA

I notice they say in the article that themselves (MK Dons) were probably the biggest spenders along with Lincoln. No mention of Stags.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Son Of Sherwood » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:26 am

Source BBC Sport: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49586279

Mental health support offered to club's suffering fans

Bury FC fans struggling with the demise of the club are being offered mental health support sessions on the NHS.

A mental health service run by the Pennine Care NHS Trust wants to help supporters with "emotional distress or upset" following the club's expulsion from the English Football League.

Bury played "a big role in many people's lives", said Bury Healthy Minds service manager Liz Woodings.

"Strong emotional reactions are completely understandable," she added.


"It's normal to feel very upset in circumstances like this because it's such a big loss to our local community and identity.

"It's important to take the time to look after yourself when you're feeling down or struggling with feelings of grief or loss."

The wellbeing sessions take place in Bury Town Hall on Friday, 6 September.

Bury were expelled from the EFL on 27 August after a failed takeover bid by C&N Sporting Risk.

The EFL has said it will discuss the club's future with its member clubs following some calls to reinstate the Shakers in League Two next season.


My Response... Go take 2 paracetamol, lie down in a dark room and recall your "glorious promotion season" last season when you knowingly cheated 4 other clubs out of automatic promotion. Hopefully that will help take the pain away!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Chander Lear » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:37 am

Son Of Sherwood wrote:Source BBC Sport: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49586279

Mental health support offered to club's suffering fans

Bury FC fans struggling with the demise of the club are being offered mental health support sessions on the NHS.

A mental health service run by the Pennine Care NHS Trust wants to help supporters with "emotional distress or upset" following the club's expulsion from the English Football League.

Bury played "a big role in many people's lives", said Bury Healthy Minds service manager Liz Woodings.

"Strong emotional reactions are completely understandable," she added.


"It's normal to feel very upset in circumstances like this because it's such a big loss to our local community and identity.

"It's important to take the time to look after yourself when you're feeling down or struggling with feelings of grief or loss."

The wellbeing sessions take place in Bury Town Hall on Friday, 6 September.

Bury were expelled from the EFL on 27 August after a failed takeover bid by C&N Sporting Risk.

The EFL has said it will discuss the club's future with its member clubs following some calls to reinstate the Shakers in League Two next season.


My Response... Go take 2 paracetamol, lie down in a dark room and recall your "glorious promotion season" last season when you knowingly cheated 4 other clubs out of automatic promotion. Hopefully that will help take the pain away!


Although I am sympathetic to the loss of the club and yes, its sad times for all of the fans, offering free mental health for this reason alone is madness. The NHS is cash strapped and the money should be used for general mental health issues instead. If this falls into the remit for some sufferers then fair enough, but not solely for this reason.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby pemill » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:35 pm

Totally agree
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:41 pm

Mental Health services are notoriously one of the hardest NHS Services to access with long waiting lists. It appears this is not the case in Bury and I wonder if the local MP has had any influence on this.

If I were a service user in that area (yes I know it's badly needed in my case) I would be far from happy if my appointment was delayed by this gesture.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Jimstag » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:48 pm

Disagree with some of these comments, if a fan needs help with mental state following this then they clearly have a problem and need help. It’s probably a sign of something deeper if this is the thing that gets you.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:33 pm

About bloomin' time

"The EFL has today announced a comprehensive review of the regulations and procedures concerning the financial sustainability of EFL Clubs."

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/september ... ity-review
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby mousemousemouse » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:02 pm

Jimstag wrote:Disagree with some of these comments, if a fan needs help with mental state following this then they clearly have a problem and need help. It’s probably a sign of something deeper if this is the thing that gets you.


I’m not sure they should be provided a VIP service because an MP wants some votes though.

It took me 10 weeks to get counselling through the NHS. I’d be furious if someone was fast tracked because they support Bury.

However, support should be provided should ANYONE need it and I hope anyone that is affected gets the help they need. I agree that someone will have deep rooted problems to work through that could be triggered by the Buty saga
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:35 pm

adamstag wrote:No, no and no.

Flout the rules and suffer the consequences - obviously it's sad for the fans but this can't be allowed to happen.

The club should be passed out of the football league as per their original decision and allow the conference to decide what to do with them.

Now that it's been established only 1 side will go down this season If the EFL were to reinstate Bury who's so say the team finishing 23rd wouldn't take league action - they'd be perfectly entitled to do so.


I hope everyone rejects it.... its not fair that they overspent, got promoted with a squad they shouldn't of had and now will just be allowed back in like it was all ok.. Start again in non league like other clubs have had to

They should of just reinstated them into league two at the start of the season and let the team finishing fourth be promoted :lol:
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:11 am

The winding up petition brought by HMRC, Egerton Youth Club and six Macclesfield Town players for unpaid wages was heard yesterday in the High Court. It was taken over again by HMRC. It has been adjourned until 23rd October. Macclesfield said after the last hearing in August that " We would like to reassure fans that sufficient funds to clear this in full are available and the matter will be resolved before the hearing".

Amar Alkadhi is clearly another dodgy owner. If the Silkmen have not paid their players from last season then like Bury they should have been automatically relegated by the EFL to the National League. They should not have been allowed to start the season. The EFL needs to change its rules.

Some Macclesfield fans seem prepared to risk going into administration if it means getting rid of Alkadhi. With only one relegation place (subject to Bury not being reinstated), they think they would still have a decent chance of staying in the EFL even with a 12 point deduction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49342498

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49660849
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:55 am

That looks a risk worth taking to me.

If the twelve points were deducted today, they would only be two points behind Scunthorpe with a goal difference better by 13 goals. You would have to think with nearly 40 games to play, they would have a good chance to overhaul them.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby spanishstag » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:29 pm

Just seen in todays daily mail ,that middlesborough are going to sue the efl ,over their failure to take action over derby,s selling of pride park to get around ffp rules ,they say that if proper actions had been taken ,they would have made the play offs ,they finished a point behind derby
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