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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby 1970Stag » Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:49 pm

I know the current owner is taking most of the flack, but the company that was trying to buy them made it clear when they said the way the club had been run in the previous 6 years, ie Stewart Day, he owed money to various companies that they lent it from, so no new company could ever really buy Bury FC, because the finances were in such a state. Who owns the ground, who was owed money, basically Dale should never have taken it over, and then they'd have gone pop last season instead!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:39 pm

Look S Dale has made money out of this already by paying himself consultancy fees since December.

And would make a hell of a lot more if someone was fool enough to pay the 25% CVA amounts.

Which I think would have made him £1.75m
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby cassellswasmagic » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:23 pm

A consortium wants to buy Bury and are pleading with the EFL to rescind the expulsion apparently.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby ST4GS » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:37 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:A consortium wants to buy Bury and are pleading with the EFL to rescind the expulsion apparently.

Why wait till today then of all days!!!. It's like transfer deadline last hour or a last second ebay bid. Can get bargins but more than likely will end in tears.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sedgwick » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:48 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:A consortium wants to buy Bury and are pleading with the EFL to rescind the expulsion apparently.


Too late, they won't reverse this decision. They're gone.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:29 pm

Some individual or company connected to Bury received a £900,000 introduction fee for introducing them to Capital Bridging Finance who provided them with a secured loan of £1.6 million which is now around £3.7 million.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:20 pm

According to the BBC football website Bury are considering legal action against the EFL. They are also upset that they might be demoted five divisions and think they should only be demoted to league 2. Cheeky or what ?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:44 pm

Legal action costs big money and Steve Dale is certainly not going to cough up. Bury fans would be better off spending their money on setting up a new club and looking for somewhere to play until something about Gigg Lane can be sorted out. The ground will have to be sold to repay Capital Bridging Finance.

FC United used to pay rent to Bury to play at Gigg Lane. Perhaps FC United can now return the favour.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:53 pm

Top Man!! - Eric Samuelson (Former Chairman of AFC Wimbledon).

"What's wrong about this situation whilst feeling incredible sorry for Bury is that they got promoted playing players that should not have been playing for them and that deprived Mansfield of an automatic promotion spot. Bury fans have suffered a dreadful effect. Mansfield fans have not been very well dealt with. They have lost out on something they should have had because Bury had players that shouldn't have been playing because they could not afford them."

"The reason that the EFL rules are not good enough is the fault of the 72 clubs. The clubs do not always send the most senior people to the meetings and so the EFL cannot always engage with the real people who make the decisions. The rules that failed the fans at Bury and Bolton are down to the 72 clubs and if they don't do something about it then perhaps someone from outside should introduce a licensing system."

"Clubs who go down from League 2 to the National League is usually due to something being bad about the club that needs putting right". (That was certainly right about the Stags!).

Andy Saunders from AFC Mansfield also talks about the AFC Vase.

https://audioboom.com/posts/7355127-30t ... eJifquBq8o
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:57 pm

Hopefully, should this work, you get another perspective, that of Martin Samuel of the Daily Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... siness.htm
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:05 pm

Well said also Kelvin Thomas, Chairman of Northampton Town. JR needs to get his claim into the EFL quick!

"Obviously this is a very sad time for Bury, but you can't forget about the club last year who didn't get promoted because Bury did. The financial impact on them, and I think it was Mansfield Town, can't be ignored. So there has been a financial impact on another club due to Bury going up, and not paying their players. That is the reality of it."

"Were we operating on a level playing field in league two last season? No, we weren't. Player wages are the biggest cost of any football club, and we know that Bury were paying significantly more than they could afford."

"I think the problem the EFL have is that they can only operate within the existing rules, and the job now of the EFL is to ensure the rules are amended, changed or improved. At the last few EFL meetings this has come up, and I have been quite vocal in saying that my opinion is that clubs should be docked points as soon as wages aren't paid. My suggestion is that as soon as wages aren't paid, the clubs have 10 days to pay them in full, and if they don't then they are docked points at that time. There would be a set formula as to how many points clubs are docked, etc."

"The thing is, I think people have known about the Bury situation for a long time, this isn't a new situation, and at Northampton we have good knowledge of it thanks to Nicky Adams, who plays for us now. Unforutnately, Nicky is owed a lot of money I think, in personal terms from Bury and he may not get that money. The alarm bells will always ring when wages don't get paid on time, but there is no punishment for that. If clubs knew they would get docked points if they didn't pay their wages on time then I would guess that people would try harder to make sure that wages get paid on time."

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/spor ... -1-9051650
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:28 pm

Been saying the above for a while now and been told by fans of other clubs that I am being harsh. Maybe if they had finished 4th like we did they would feel differently.
Another thing is that it was well known about the financial problems when Dale took over back in January. Why was he not trying to offload players in the transfer window. Surely there would have been clubs that would have paid a fee for Mayor, Maynard, etc. ?
It appears to me that they prioritised promotion over financial security. No sympathy from me.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Blackburn Stag » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:01 pm

Feel like this about it myself as well. Fair enough, we majorly shot ourselves in the foot with how we ended the season & should have taken it out of Bury's hands to stop us being promoted. The fact they went up after turning down bids for at least Danny Mayor of possibly 7 figures in January to then 2 months later not be paying their own ridiculous wage bill leaves a bitter taste though. It's caused us a severe disruption & things could look very different now. Little sympathy from me.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:04 pm

Did I read somewhere that said if Bury results had been taken away last season we still wouldn’t have gone up?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:08 pm

We have to stop blaming Bury for our failure to get promotion. We managed that with no help from anyone else.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bobbystagsfan » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:13 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:We have to stop blaming Bury for our failure to get promotion. We managed that with no help from anyone else.



Its more the fact that the EFL should not have allowed a team to get promoted when it was illegitimate
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:19 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:We have to stop blaming Bury for our failure to get promotion. We managed that with no help from anyone else.

The league table doesn't lie Edders.

Basically we froze in the last few games which cost us.

Maybe the pressure in trying to match Bury's results caused the anxiety and the poor performances. Had Bury sold their star players ( as they morally should have done in order to pay the rest of the staff ), they most likely wouldn't have been in the mix.

I think JR would be correct in talking to the EFL about some compensation for the club.

It seems from the newspaper articles, it was well known Bury were spending way beyond their means.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:40 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:Been saying the above for a while now and been told by fans of other clubs that I am being harsh. Maybe if they had finished 4th like we did they would feel differently.

Another thing is that it was well known about the financial problems when Dale took over back in January. Why was he not trying to offload players in the transfer window. Surely there would have been clubs that would have paid a fee for Mayor, Maynard, etc. ? It appears to me that they prioritised promotion over financial security. No sympathy from me.


I had the same conversation Dave about cutbacks in January with a Bury fan on twitter. He was honest enough to say that he thought the plan was for Bury to go up to League 1 and then enter into an Insolvency Event which would result in a 12 point deduction. It would then give them a chance to stay in the EFL as a 12 point deduction would mean they had a season to sort themselves out even if it meant relegation to League 2. A 12 point deduction in League 2 this season would have resulted in almost certain relegation to the National League. Perhaps Steve Dale thought he had more chance of making a £2 million profit on his £1 purchase price if he was selling an EFL club compared to a probable National League club.

"The cutbacks wouldn't have been enough. It was clear we were going to enter an insolvency event and - 12 in league 2 is a death sentence. Keep the players, go up, then cutback. It's awful, brutal but may have saved the club."
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:57 pm

The latest ramblings of a greedy asset stripper who cannot understand why those terrible people at the EFL have expelled Bury from the league and won't help him.

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/augu ... statement/

JR ought to get Bill Broughton to send the EFL and Bury a claim for Mansfield's loss of income this season due to Bury's financial shenanigans.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby lou c » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:57 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
EdwinstoweStag wrote:We have to stop blaming Bury for our failure to get promotion. We managed that with no help from anyone else.

The league table doesn't lie Edders.

Basically we froze in the last few games which cost us.

Maybe the pressure in trying to match Bury's results caused the anxiety and the poor performances. Had Bury sold their star players ( as they morally should have done in order to pay the rest of the staff ), they most likely wouldn't have been in the mix.

I think JR would be correct in talking to the EFL about some compensation for the club.

It seems from the newspaper articles, it was well known Bury were spending way beyond their means.


I'm sure that was it. It was the pressure in trying to match Bury's results that ultimately cost us.
'I think JR would be correct in talking to the EFL about some compensation for the club.' are you serious?
Firstly, a payout would mean the FL admitting they made a mistake. In which case i think the first course of action would be re-admitting Bury to the league and not trying to appease ever so hard done to fans like you!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Dan » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:21 pm

Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Rob » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:36 pm

Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Dan » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:44 am

Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.


:lol: :lol: Same squad?! What about the 20+ goals of Tyler Walker?! I’ve not said anywhere that we’re guaranteed to go up. I’m just pointing out that the previous manager bottled it TWICE yet people seem to ignore the facts. Bizarre really. Yet had it been Steve Evans who had bottled it twice we know what yours & others opinions would be wouldn’t we?! ;)
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby chip63 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:49 am

Why is the talk of us not going up? Not Newport who I really hate so much or the team that came down
Who bury replaced.
Please tell me that it's not money talking and every club representitve who speaks for the football league and votes in a selfish way because they are trying the same.
At the moment we can afford to fail with players wages etc.. We won't go bust but how long can we keep doing it.
I would of thought Salford would try it but they don't and we should wonder why.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Rob » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:16 am

Dan wrote:
Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.


:lol: :lol: Same squad?! What about the 20+ goals of Tyler Walker?! I’ve not said anywhere that we’re guaranteed to go up. I’m just pointing out that the previous manager bottled it TWICE yet people seem to ignore the facts. Bizarre really. Yet had it been Steve Evans who had bottled it twice we know what yours & others opinions would be wouldn’t we?! ;)


Maynard and Cook (who he?) will be on a fair whack, they are not loan players. Out budget this season will be pretty much what it was last season, less than 4th then the decision to remove DF was wrong. I am completely behind JD and think he should be given time, but it is typical of some football fans that 5 games in the world has come to an end. If anyone thought by removing DF and installing JD we would be top 3 then they are not living in the real world. It will be a fantastic feat if JD gets us top 7 - under DF I believe we would have been top 3.

Evans is just an odious person and someone I never wanted involved in my club. He's a fraud and his failure at Posh just showed him for what he is. Expectations are high at MTFC these days, many fans think they know what our wage budget is so have unrealistic expectations. I suspect again our budget, like last season, is top 7 but not top 3 but fans will want the manager gone if we do not over perform. You have a choice Dan, you give a manager 3 years (King, Parkin, Dearden, Greaves, Cox) or you fire him for not over-achieving. You have known me long enough to know that I have always believed managers need at least 2 years but preferably 3 seasons. It's not a personal thing, I have never met DF, but anyone who says that some of the games last season were not some of the best seen at the Mill for a long time are just telling lies.
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