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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby cassellswasmagic » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:23 pm

mousemousemouse wrote:So Bury have had their first game suspended and have until the 2nd August before their second game is suspended

https://www.efl.com/news/2019/july/efl- ... d-bury-fc2

Reap what you sow really. Overstretched themselves for years.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:47 pm

Not looking good for Bury. Bolton have been given the go ahead though.

BURY

"Following continued and comprehensive discussions with the ownership at Bury and other interested parties throughout Monday, the EFL Board is not satisfied it has received the necessary evidence in regard to the outstanding information it requires that demonstrates how the Club will be funded moving forwards.

As a result of not meeting Monday’s 5pm deadline, which had been extended on two previous occasions, the EFL Board feels it has been placed in an unenviable position and, regrettably, has opted to take the reluctant decision to suspend Saturday’s opening day fixture with MK Dons under the provision of EFL Regulation 28.2.

In addition, the EFL Board, if not in possession of the necessary evidence by 12pm on Friday 2 August 2019, will make a determination as to whether to suspend Bury’s away fixture at Accrington Stanley on Saturday 10 August 2019.

As has been the case throughout this entire process, the EFL will continue to offer its full assistance to the ownership at Bury, but remains clear that while the League is here to support the Club through some extremely complex and complicated issues, the outstanding matters can only be resolved with the cooperation from the Club itself."
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:53 pm

I bet County fans are fuming.

I'm not too happy myself but at least we are still in the league.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:07 pm

How many fixtures do the EFL suspend before they take further action.......until they run out of free Tuesdays?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Jimstag » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:13 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:How many fixtures do the EFL suspend before they take further action.......until they run out of free Tuesdays?

That’s the question, without some match day income I’m sure their finances won’t get any better.
Then do the league wait for them to go bust or kick them out themselves?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:38 pm

If I were JR (or another D3D4 owner) I would be asking the EFL why clubs are not automatically deducted 3 points for every week where they have failed to pay their players or other staff. Bury essentially cheated last season by signing and playing players they could not afford to pay.

The EFL should introduce a rule that if a club has not paid its players in full within 7 days of the end of the season then they are automatically relegated with the team finishing in the highest position in the league below being promoted in their place. The EFL will probably prefer to save a relegated team but I think you should always reward success rather than letting a team off relegation by winning the AGM Cup.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby DogsDoDahs » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:57 pm

Steve Dale will have numerous chances between 29th July and 5PM Friday 9th August, to provide documentary evidence to the EFL that he has the funds available to meet the requirements of the CVA which has been agreed.
Bury are back in the high court on 31st July regarding a winding up order by HMRC, he could produce the financial evidence to the court and that could be the end of that part of the problem until he has to actually make the payment to them as per the CVA.
However the evidence must also be presented to the EFL before midday Friday 31st July and satisfy them to prevent the suspension of a second fixture against Accrington Stanley.
More importantly Dale must not forget that the EFL served an expulsion notice which has a 14 day timer which started at 5pm on Friday 26th July and will end on 9th August at 5pm. If by then Dale has still not shown he has the finances in place to pay all the requirements of the agreed CVA, Bury could likely be expelled from the EFL altogether meaning Bury will no exist as a football club in any league.
Even if he does satisfy the EFL he can finance the CVA, Bury start the season on at least -12 points which could get added to because they failed to meet the criteria to play their opening fixture against MK Dons.
All in all a mess of Steve Dales making since the CVA was passed and not shown to be feasible to EFL
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 30, 2019 12:13 am

MK Dons have released the following in relation to the statement made by the EFL earlier this evening [Monday].

MK Dons are hugely disappointed that our opening day fixture against Bury has been suspended. The Club’s preparations for the new season have been meticulously geared towards the 3rd August start date and this potential disruption to our planning, through no fault of our own, is most unwelcome.

That said, we understand that this is both a serious and complex situation and our overriding concern has to be for everyone at Bury Football Club and their supporters. We note that the EFL are doing everything they can to assist Bury and we hope that there will be both a swift and positive resolution to the current problems, and that Bury will quickly be back in Sky Bet League One action.

In the meantime, the Club has made representations to the EFL concerning the potential impact on both future fixture congestion and sequencing of away games.

We have also outlined our concerns on behalf of supporters who may have booked travel or accommodation and who may not be able to recover all their costs. We would advise any supporter affected in this way to retain evidence of any such personal loss so these might be taken forward by the Club to the EFL to deal with as appropriate. More details will be announced following further consultation with the EFL.

Any supporter who has purchased a match ticket for this fixture, as well as those who booked Official Away Travel with the Club, can claim a full refund from the MK Dons Box Office.

https://www.mkdons.com/news/2019/july/c ... suspended/
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby 88BenM » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:31 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:MK Dons have released the following in relation to the statement made by the EFL earlier this evening [Monday].

MK Dons are hugely disappointed that our opening day fixture against Bury has been suspended. The Club’s preparations for the new season have been meticulously geared towards the 3rd August start date and this potential disruption to our planning, through no fault of our own, is most unwelcome.

That said, we understand that this is both a serious and complex situation and our overriding concern has to be for everyone at Bury Football Club and their supporters. We note that the EFL are doing everything they can to assist Bury and we hope that there will be both a swift and positive resolution to the current problems, and that Bury will quickly be back in Sky Bet League One action.

In the meantime, the Club has made representations to the EFL concerning the potential impact on both future fixture congestion and sequencing of away games.

We have also outlined our concerns on behalf of supporters who may have booked travel or accommodation and who may not be able to recover all their costs. We would advise any supporter affected in this way to retain evidence of any such personal loss so these might be taken forward by the Club to the EFL to deal with as appropriate. More details will be announced following further consultation with the EFL.

Any supporter who has purchased a match ticket for this fixture, as well as those who booked Official Away Travel with the Club, can claim a full refund from the MK Dons Box Office.

https://www.mkdons.com/news/2019/july/c ... suspended/


That'll be about 40 plastic fans put out then. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of cretins.

This whole situation makes a mockery of the EFL.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Marky Mark » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:41 am

Genuinely surprised that there’s not been more noise from us (being the club next in line) about the Bury situation, us as fans have accepted it and moved on, and so have the club itself. If it were a Premiership Club involved then there’d be petitions and court cases all over the place. It’s to our credit.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Jimstag » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:25 am

Marky Mark wrote:Genuinely surprised that there’s not been more noise from us (being the club next in line) about the Bury situation, us as fans have accepted it and moved on, and so have the club itself. If it were a Premiership Club involved then there’d be petitions and court cases all over the place. It’s to our credit.


Not much you can do, it’s only if they went bust last year and prior to the play offs that we would have gained. The scandalous thing seems to be that the owner check hadn’t been completed before the takeover, e.g. there should have been repercussions at that point for one. We know many dodgy owners have passed but to not pass at all should have consequence.

The second I agree with Tippy Tappy that there should be a penalty for not being able to pay players for playing, you’re getting reward for playing on credit and can easily overstretch and play the situation to your advantage.

The other issues that are being tested preseason, so CVAs and finances to complete the season take time so it’s understandable that they are only being dealt with now. The issue in this case is that they’ve had a pretty significant advantage while this has played out it’s only now they can’t capitalise on it, potentially at our expense.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:18 am

What annoys me most about all of this is the fact that Bury were looking tisell Mayor and Maynard during the January transfer window. Neither of them were selected when they played against us over christmas. It is arguable that, by selling them, Steve dale could have kelt the wolf from the door but chose not to.
The club kept their two most influential players and were promoted.
Next, HMRC were given assurances by Bury that they were able to pay their tax liability which they no longer seem to be able to do and had also avoided the chance to raise the necessary money during the transfer window. This meant that the winding up order was then dropped mid season.
By being able to lie and cheat, Steve Dale has got Bury promoted when there was no prospect of being able to start this season and when the players were not paid for months.

This is a ridiculous situation and someone has got to grow a pair particularly HMRC. A few years ago, Liverpool were rumoured to owe £80 million in tax but were not chased whilst Truro and Eastwood were wound up for tens of thousands as there was no prospect of them paying their tax liability. It just does not seem right at all.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:28 am

If I were JR I would be getting Bill Broughton to send a letter to the EFL claiming compensation especially as the EFL admitted they never enforced their own rules when Steve Dale bought the club in December. The EFL (or ideally an Independent Football Regulator) could have stepped in then and made Bury offload players in the January transfer window. They should have made sure that Bury would have enough money to pay the players until the end of the season.

There were rumours that Danny Mayor did not play against Stags on Boxing Day because he was going to Preston for £1 million. In fact, I am surprised that Steve Dale did not sell Bury's best players in January to try and extract some cash from the club for himself bearing in mind that he is known as an asset stripper.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby tillydog123 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:32 am

Amazing though that they still managed to get promoted with all that going on in the background.. makes us look even more silly from the end of last season and could not even get one point last game with all the treats go karts and benefits we had going on.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bellwhiff » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:59 am

It is an appalling state of affairs where this club has basically fraudulently been promoted over clubs that played by the rules. Sympathy for the fans but kick them out of the league.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Dave Wayne » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:59 am

88BenM wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:MK Dons have released the following in relation to the statement made by the EFL earlier this evening [Monday].

MK Dons are hugely disappointed that our opening day fixture against Bury has been suspended. The Club’s preparations for the new season have been meticulously geared towards the 3rd August start date and this potential disruption to our planning, through no fault of our own, is most unwelcome.

That said, we understand that this is both a serious and complex situation and our overriding concern has to be for everyone at Bury Football Club and their supporters. We note that the EFL are doing everything they can to assist Bury and we hope that there will be both a swift and positive resolution to the current problems, and that Bury will quickly be back in Sky Bet League One action.

In the meantime, the Club has made representations to the EFL concerning the potential impact on both future fixture congestion and sequencing of away games.

We have also outlined our concerns on behalf of supporters who may have booked travel or accommodation and who may not be able to recover all their costs. We would advise any supporter affected in this way to retain evidence of any such personal loss so these might be taken forward by the Club to the EFL to deal with as appropriate. More details will be announced following further consultation with the EFL.

Any supporter who has purchased a match ticket for this fixture, as well as those who booked Official Away Travel with the Club, can claim a full refund from the MK Dons Box Office.

https://www.mkdons.com/news/2019/july/c ... suspended/


That'll be about 40 plastic fans put out then. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of cretins.

This whole situation makes a mockery of the EFL.

When will people finally grow up and stop making stupid comments like this about MK fans ?
The situation regarding how the club came into existence was wrong and will hopefully never be allowed to happen again, but that is purely the fault of the owners and the FA/EFL.
Most of the fans are just like us - people who support their local football league club. Some of them weren't even born when the club was formed.
It's time to bury the hatchet and cut them a bit of slack.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sneag » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:22 am

Dave Wayne wrote:
88BenM wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:MK Dons have released the following in relation to the statement made by the EFL earlier this evening [Monday].

MK Dons are hugely disappointed that our opening day fixture against Bury has been suspended. The Club’s preparations for the new season have been meticulously geared towards the 3rd August start date and this potential disruption to our planning, through no fault of our own, is most unwelcome.

That said, we understand that this is both a serious and complex situation and our overriding concern has to be for everyone at Bury Football Club and their supporters. We note that the EFL are doing everything they can to assist Bury and we hope that there will be both a swift and positive resolution to the current problems, and that Bury will quickly be back in Sky Bet League One action.

In the meantime, the Club has made representations to the EFL concerning the potential impact on both future fixture congestion and sequencing of away games.

We have also outlined our concerns on behalf of supporters who may have booked travel or accommodation and who may not be able to recover all their costs. We would advise any supporter affected in this way to retain evidence of any such personal loss so these might be taken forward by the Club to the EFL to deal with as appropriate. More details will be announced following further consultation with the EFL.

Any supporter who has purchased a match ticket for this fixture, as well as those who booked Official Away Travel with the Club, can claim a full refund from the MK Dons Box Office.

https://www.mkdons.com/news/2019/july/c ... suspended/


That'll be about 40 plastic fans put out then. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of cretins.

This whole situation makes a mockery of the EFL.

When will people finally grow up and stop making stupid comments like this about MK fans ?
The situation regarding how the club came into existence was wrong and will hopefully never be allowed to happen again, but that is purely the fault of the owners and the FA/EFL.
Most of the fans are just like us - people who support their local football league club. Some of them weren't even born when the club was formed.
It's time to bury the hatchet and cut them a bit of slack.


I guess when they raspberry off to step 9 and earn their place in the league rather than stealing another club's place in the league. That stink is never going away.

MK had a non league team, why didn't they support that?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Spiritater » Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:29 am

agree with sneag, you EARN your place in the elite 92, just like t'sheep n pies are trying to do now :D
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:21 pm

MK Dons just changed their name from Wimbledon FC and moved ground location.

Just like Newton Heath (Manchester United) and Woolwich Arsenal (Arsenal FC) have done in the past.

AFC Wimbledon were formed before Wimbledon moved from south London and did start at the bottom of the pyramid.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby ParisStag » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:59 pm

part time pete wrote:MK Dons just changed their name from Wimbledon FC and moved ground location.

Just like Newton Heath (Manchester United) and Woolwich Arsenal (Arsenal FC) have done in the past.

AFC Wimbledon were formed before Wimbledon moved from south London and did start at the bottom of the pyramid.


Newton Heath and Old Trafford are both in Manchester. Woolwich and Highbury are both in London. Merton and Milton Keynes are 65 miles apart. It's not the same thing.

Winkleman ripped a club away from it's fans and community to give it to a town without a league club. He re-branded, changed the name, kit, etc, but wanted to keep the 1988 FA Cup and league position at the time. The courts declared that AFC Wimbledon were the rightful owners of the Wimbledon legacy and should be given the rights to the club's history and trophies, not MK. As for the people of Milton Keynes, they are not just like the rest of us. They profited directly from the killing of a club and stood by and let it happen by supporting Winkleman's project. He was too greedy and impatient to invest in the existing Milton Keynes non-league club and start lower down. They should all be ashamed of themselves.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:00 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
88BenM wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:MK Dons have released the following in relation to the statement made by the EFL earlier this evening [Monday].

MK Dons are hugely disappointed that our opening day fixture against Bury has been suspended. The Club’s preparations for the new season have been meticulously geared towards the 3rd August start date and this potential disruption to our planning, through no fault of our own, is most unwelcome.

That said, we understand that this is both a serious and complex situation and our overriding concern has to be for everyone at Bury Football Club and their supporters. We note that the EFL are doing everything they can to assist Bury and we hope that there will be both a swift and positive resolution to the current problems, and that Bury will quickly be back in Sky Bet League One action.

In the meantime, the Club has made representations to the EFL concerning the potential impact on both future fixture congestion and sequencing of away games.

We have also outlined our concerns on behalf of supporters who may have booked travel or accommodation and who may not be able to recover all their costs. We would advise any supporter affected in this way to retain evidence of any such personal loss so these might be taken forward by the Club to the EFL to deal with as appropriate. More details will be announced following further consultation with the EFL.

Any supporter who has purchased a match ticket for this fixture, as well as those who booked Official Away Travel with the Club, can claim a full refund from the MK Dons Box Office.

https://www.mkdons.com/news/2019/july/c ... suspended/


That'll be about 40 plastic fans put out then. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of cretins.

This whole situation makes a mockery of the EFL.

When will people finally grow up and stop making stupid comments like this about MK fans ?
The situation regarding how the club came into existence was wrong and will hopefully never be allowed to happen again, but that is purely the fault of the owners and the FA/EFL.
Most of the fans are just like us - people who support their local football league club. Some of them weren't even born when the club was formed.
It's time to bury the hatchet and cut them a bit of slack.


Nahh...
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:56 pm

ParisStag wrote:Newton Heath and Old Trafford are both in Manchester. Woolwich and Highbury are both in London. Merton and Milton Keynes are 65 miles apart. It's not the same thing.

Winkleman ripped a club away from it's fans and community to give it to a town without a league club. He re-branded, changed the name, kit, etc, but wanted to keep the 1988 FA Cup and league position at the time. The courts declared that AFC Wimbledon were the rightful owners of the Wimbledon legacy and should be given the rights to the club's history and trophies, not MK. As for the people of Milton Keynes, they are not just like the rest of us. They profited directly from the killing of a club and stood by and let it happen by supporting Winkleman's project. He was too greedy and impatient to invest in the existing Milton Keynes non-league club and start lower down. They should all be ashamed of themselves.


Well said Paris.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:21 pm

ParisStag wrote:
part time pete wrote:MK Dons just changed their name from Wimbledon FC and moved ground location.

Just like Newton Heath (Manchester United) and Woolwich Arsenal (Arsenal FC) have done in the past.

AFC Wimbledon were formed before Wimbledon moved from south London and did start at the bottom of the pyramid.


Newton Heath and Old Trafford are both in Manchester. Woolwich and Highbury are both in London. Merton and Milton Keynes are 65 miles apart. It's not the same thing.

Winkleman ripped a club away from it's fans and community to give it to a town without a league club. He re-branded, changed the name, kit, etc, but wanted to keep the 1988 FA Cup and league position at the time. The courts declared that AFC Wimbledon were the rightful owners of the Wimbledon legacy and should be given the rights to the club's history and trophies, not MK. As for the people of Milton Keynes, they are not just like the rest of us. They profited directly from the killing of a club and stood by and let it happen by supporting Winkleman's project. He was too greedy and impatient to invest in the existing Milton Keynes non-league club and start lower down. They should all be ashamed of themselves.

You make some very valid points Paris.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:22 pm

Steve Dale, Bury's owner, has issued another bizarre rambling statement attacking the EFL who have rightly withheld payments to Bury of £569,493 for the forthcoming season:

"The Chairman has issues the following statement:

We, as a Club are saddened by recent events from a body who should have the best interest of Clubs as it’s primary objective, clearly this is not the case.

We, as a Club had come through such adversity left from the previous owner and had started to make headway, the majority of rot had been cut out and the atmosphere at our Training Ground was fantastic, where a positive air had started to replace the despondency of the legacy. New players were arriving with an open mind and looking forward to the new season as were our fantastic new staff.

We thought we were finalizing with the EFL on any outstanding matters that needed addressing, they were fully aware that SAG were happy with our progress and upon the lighting replacement being completed ALL matters were concluded and the certificates would be issued the next day. The Council also confirmed this to the EFL so no worries fulfilling fixtures.

Our CVA had been put forward and we had proven to the courts our ability to fund it and it was passed after 5 months of hard work, this closed off the past where creditors would be dealt with by the administrator, or so we thought.

We submitted all that we were asked to by the EFL in the week prior to their “statement” not as they stated, “not submitted.” So as far as we were concerned we were up to date and requested they lift the embargo so we could sign our players as we were running the risk of losing them.

We then received an email explaining they felt it prudent to amend our cash flow/business plan to show a £1.5m loss and they required additional funding, as this was not factual we challenged their assertion as it was based we were advised on “sensitised feel” not facts, we forwarded the facts to qualify our plan and dismiss their “sensitised feel.”

So at this point, we felt all had been covered and we could continue with the upward trajectory we were on, get our players signed and all was good, Bury was on its way.


THEN THE INFAMOUS EFL STATEMENTS

I was advised by the EFL chair that board pressure had been put on her to send out a statement, however, she had the decency to advise me by phone prior, which was and has always been appreciated.

I explained all the matters were covered, we had spoken and agreed in principle the player debt with the PFA and within the CVA, the CVA administrator sent a letter to the EFL confirming all was as it should be and he was happy creditors would be met within it. They had our business plan and to save the matter protracting we sent proof of funds to cover the fictional £1.5m loss, furthermore, they had been contacted by the Council informing them the SAG licences had been cleared.

They still, however, felt it prudent to ignore the facts and send out the incendiary statement for no gain to anybody other than to discredit Bury FC and it’s Board.

The effect of that to our Club has been unrest in players thinking there would be no Club, loss of players, sponsors pulling out and 5 months of hard work being destroyed by them, then you have the subsequent media garbage inciting unrest and the trolls rearing their sorry heads again, all based on ill truths or at best negative spin, for what?

They then contacted Jill Neville late at night to say a further statement was being put out, our Staff and the Club Lawyer tried to contact them to no avail to ask what was their next statement based on as they had everything, it turned out the game would not go ahead?

They contacted us giving us more time, we asked what further could be given, our cash flow was solid, the mythical £1.5m requirement was covered should it ever be needed by an offer letter and they themselves advised “The EFL is aware the £1.5m may not be required it's a worst-case scenario forecast. It may never need to be drawn down on.” And again they were advised the PFA were working with us on a settlement however this was covered by the CVA, so you would assume once again all good.

Then the EFL meeting last night and subsequent statement, where they decided the POF letter of £1.5m was not sufficient they wanted money in the bank to cover the requirement they themselves say is not needed, and let’s not forget, in addition to our positive cash flow, the EFL have withheld payments to the Club of £569,493 including August payment, not the actions of a body there to help, but certainly if released would cover possible eventualities they deem prevalent. They also disputed our agreement with the PFA even though our Lawyer and prominent third parties were privy to this. Still, they postpone the match and again for what gain?

I am unsure at this juncture where Bury go when the body that should be there to help us works against us, however, I felt it important to set the record straight and hope the EFL try to be reasonable.

We, as a Club, promise you that we will challenge this injustice in whatever forum necessary.

Yours sincerely,

Steven D Dale"
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby BigGuy » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:11 pm

He told you all that?
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