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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby wayno cordiniho » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:22 pm

Spiritater wrote:But they soon faded away, last gate back to what it was before the offer.


Thus proving the original point that we’re pricing young people out...
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:26 pm

part time pete wrote:When clubs make these loses, where does the cash come from, or is it just a paper loss and not real in some way.


The losses are funded by loans from the owner or his companies which is the case at a lot of football clubs including the Stags.

Bury's accounts for the year ended 31st May 2017 stated that there were creditors of £6,837,747 including "Other Creditors" of £5,103,175. This "Other Creditors" figure included a loan of £4,275,982 from Stewart Day's company Mederco Limited. They also paid rent of £50,000 per annum.

The accounts also state that Mederco Limited provided a revolving credit facility of £5,000,000 to ensure the club could continue its operations with a proviso that it could be converted to equity (shares) if needed "to ensure there is sufficient head room in the facility".

The ground (Stadium) was valued at £5,449,500.

It seems that Stewart Day set up another company called SG Sports Management Limited that borrowed money from various companies with Bury FC guaranteeing the loans at very high rates of interest. This was explained by David Conn in an article in The Guardian in November 2014:

"publicly filed Companies House documents show that since taking over Bury, Day’s company has borrowed ....£1m, ... secured on Gigg Lane, but at an exponentially higher interest rate: 10% per month. That is a cumulative annual rate of 138%, meaning that after one year, £1m borrowed in August will, with interest, amount to £2.38m to be repaid. Bury Football Club themselves, formed in 1885 at the dawn of professional football and Football League members for 120 years, are guaranteeing this high-interest £1m loan.

It was taken out by Day’s company, SG Sports Management Limited of Rainbow House, Burnley, on 11 August. By then SG Sports Management had already borrowed £450,000, at the same rate of interest, 10% per month, from a company called, somewhat unpromisingly, Cash4Assets Limited. Day’s company borrowed twice from that company: £200,000 on 14 May, around the time the club signed Lowe, Adams and Mayor, then another £250,000 less than a month later, on 9 June.

Bury FC have guaranteed both those loans; the security is stated in the mortgages to be “a first legal charge … over the freehold property at Bury football ground and stadium, Gigg Lane”.

Just two months later, on 11 August, SG Sports Management borrowed £1m from Goldmann and Sons Limited, a company with a single shareholder, officially classed as “dormant”. The loan included the £450,000 already borrowed from Cash4Assets, plus a further £550,000, to make £1m. Like the previous two, this loan was stated to be for one month, at interest of 7.5% if the whole loan were repaid within a month, then, if it were not, at 10% per month. As the mortgage is still registered against Bury and Gigg Lane, it appears it was not immediately repaid, so interest is running at £100,000 for the first month, then at 10% per month of the outstanding loan; 138% per year.

In October 2013 SG Sports Management took out a mortgage, for unspecified loans, from another company, Datum Finance Ltd, registered in Burnley. The agreement envisages that SG Sports Management would lend money in turn to Bury and Datum would have a mortgage on that loan."

Bury FC had a share capital of around £3.2 million in 2014. This had increased to £9.9 million by July 2018 and was £12.9 million in December 2018 so a lot of the loans must have been converted into shares. Steve Dale owned around £11.4 million shares after buying the club from Stewart Day in December 2018.

The football club borrowed money from Broadoak Private Finance Limited in March 2019 and has given them a charge over all monies that are due from the Football League which includes all payments that the club is entitled to as set out in a letter from the Football League dated 11th June 2018.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:10 pm

.
Last edited by Tippy Tappy Football on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:10 pm

.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:21 pm

Meanwhile Mederco Limited, a property investment company owned by Stewart Day the former owner of Bury FC has gone into administration with the investors losing their money. A total of £9.26 million is owed to unsecured creditors with £6.46 million owed to the P2P platform Lendy.

Mederco Limited also leased 258 car parking spaces from Bury Football Club for 24 years, and then sold sub-leases in the parking spaces to investors for £9,995. Mederco committed to paying the investors 9% per year for 5 years. It had a similar scheme for a property development in Bradford. Both these investments collapsed when HMRC issued a winding-up petition, claiming £605,000 in unpaid VAT on the car parking spaces. Stewart Day then appointed administrators.

https://bondreview.co.uk/2019/04/18/inv ... investors/
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby stag861 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:57 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote: .

Looks like players are giving 50%. Long may it continue.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby The One » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:06 pm

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:35 pm

A very interesting statement from Bury's new owner, Steve Dale.

Business

"Let’s be clear here; there would have been no Bury FC had we not took it on. Was it 100 times worse than we thought? Yes, it was."

"It has staffing levels akin to a Championship Club. We need £1.6m to pay wages, HMRC, pensions (not creditors) to the end of May, and we have a projected income of £180k for this period. As a comparable, our wage bill to end of May is equivalent to 2/3 of League One Accrington’s TURNOVER for the year."

"We asked the players, due to £250k of electric and water bills (along with numerous other bills) hitting, and monies not coming in as expected, if could they wait for their wages so we could keep the Club open; players agreed."

"Our team have done us proud on the field certainly, and as stated, we're two, perhaps one game away from League One, so job done and given my health, it’s time for me to move on with regret and reluctance, recent events have galvanized this resolve. Furthermore, over the last few days, I have received some expressions of interest. Given this, I would like to openly invite offers to me directly, to take over ownership of the Club."

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/apri ... -chairman/
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:42 pm

I hope John and Carolyn Radford will be complaining to the EFL if Bury win promotion and then go bust (along with Mark and Nicola Palios and Pete Winkelman).
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Stags 2002 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:46 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:A very interesting statement from Bury's new owner, Steve Dale.

Business

"Let’s be clear here; there would have been no Bury FC had we not took it on. Was it 100 times worse than we thought? Yes, it was."

"It has staffing levels akin to a Championship Club. We need £1.6m to pay wages, HMRC, pensions (not creditors) to the end of May, and we have a projected income of £180k for this period. As a comparable, our wage bill to end of May is equivalent to 2/3 of League One Accrington’s TURNOVER for the year."

"We asked the players, due to £250k of electric and water bills (along with numerous other bills) hitting, and monies not coming in as expected, if could they wait for their wages so we could keep the Club open; players agreed."

"Our team have done us proud on the field certainly, and as stated, we're two, perhaps one game away from League One, so job done and given my health, it’s time for me to move on with regret and reluctance, recent events have galvanized this resolve. Furthermore, over the last few days, I have received some expressions of interest. Given this, I would like to openly invite offers to me directly, to take over ownership of the Club."

https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/apri ... -chairman/


Hopefully the players have the same attitude as the owner Saturday and think it's already job done. Heaven forbid they now finish in the play-offs.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby BH_Stag » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:37 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I hope John and Carolyn Radford will be complaining to the EFL if Bury win promotion and then go bust (along with Mark and Nicola Palios and Pete Winkelman).


It’s all very frustrating. They look set to take a promotion spot now and I suppose there’s every chance they could go bust next year (though I don’t really expect it, they’ve been here before). Leaves a bitter taste that they are allowed to default on so many payments, not pay the players etc. but get promotion at the end of it when there’s many clubs trying to achieve the same goal without getting themselves in to problems on that scale.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby london amber stag » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:30 am

I totally agree, it is frankly ridiculous that Bury will take the place of a well run club if they do manage to get promoted this season.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:00 am

There is some debate on the Bury Supporters Forum about when is meant by "the end of the season" under EFL rules. Some fans have pointed out that the EFL could say that the end of the season is not the 46th game but the League 2 play off final and so if Bury are wound up or go into admin before the Play Off Final then they could still be deducted points.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Hjeldefan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:18 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:There is some debate on the Bury Supporters Forum about when is meant by "the end of the season" under EFL rules. Some fans have pointed out that the EFL could say that the end of the season is not the 46th game but the League 2 play off final and so if Bury are wound up or go into admin before the Play Off Final then they could still be deducted points.

They won't be. It is a joke really that Bury could pip us to promotion when they have essentially cheated to get there, but no less of a joke than the very existence of MK. On that basis alone we deserve promotion!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:23 am

They haven't cheated. They're just spending well beyond their means.

As for mk, Why have they cheated? Because they moved grounds you mean?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:43 am

Martin put a link up earlier in this thread. I think the salient facts are these


12.2


Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons):


12.2.1


during any Normal Playing Season, its playing record shall be expunged and the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members;


12.2.2


during the period between the end of the Normal Playing Season and the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match for that Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members; or


12.2.3


during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.



So if they survive after play off final then which ever division they would be in next season would run one short

If they go after season but before play off final, then one team less gets relegated ( not sure if that is League One or Two)
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Johnny Rotten » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:04 am

They won't be. It is a joke really that Bury could pip us to promotion when they have essentially cheated to get there but no less of a joke than the very existence of MK.


They haven't cheated. They're just spending well beyond their means.


It's not cheating but it is certainly a debate of morality.

Should Bury go up and something transpire post-event with regard to their financial predicament but little to no action is taken by the authorities it sets a dangerous precedent.

From memory Counteh spent most of the 1990s in administration of one sort of another and subsequently the points deduction thing has come about but how many years did that take to implement?!

Incidentally owing to their financial strife might Bury want to fudge it and prefer a trip to Wemberley to boost their coffers?!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Hjeldefan » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:13 am

arsene wengers coat wrote:They haven't cheated. They're just spending well beyond their means.

As for mk, Why have they cheated? Because they moved grounds you mean?

Which is basically cheating.
MK shouldn't exist and stole a place in the league, they didn't just 'move ground'.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Conker » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:23 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
part time pete wrote:When clubs make these loses, where does the cash come from, or is it just a paper loss and not real in some way.


The losses are funded by loans from the owner or his companies which is the case at a lot of football clubs including the Stags.


Am I right on saying that loans via owners cannot go towards the 55% income wage cap rule though? Meaning at Mansfield sponsorship has a big play via One call too?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:22 pm

Conker wrote:Am I right on saying that loans via owners cannot go towards the 55% income wage cap rule though? Meaning at Mansfield sponsorship has a big play via One call too?


Loans do not count as income for the Salary Cost Management Protocal calculations but sponsorship and new share capital (includes converting loans to shares) does count.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby yorkstag » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:36 pm

I remember reading about Bury's financial practices several years ago and the extremely high interest rates they were tied into,

The problem with this sort of arrangement is that you generate cash until you cant afford to refinance or meet your payments ….you just run out of road.

I'm not sure if it would be classed as cheating but they will certainly have players they could not afford if they had followed good financial practice.

This is self inflicted and if the new owners are saying its far worse than they thought that reflects on them and their advisors.

No sympathy whatsoever
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:09 pm

part time pete wrote:Martin put a link up earlier in this thread. I think the salient facts are these


12.2


Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons):


12.2.1


during any Normal Playing Season, its playing record shall be expunged and the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members;


12.2.2


during the period between the end of the Normal Playing Season and the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match for that Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the relevant Division for that Season shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members; or


12.2.3


during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.



So if they survive after play off final then which ever division they would be in next season would run one short

If they go after season but before play off final, then one team less gets relegated ( not sure if that is League One or Two)


In layman's terms, if they go bust before the 46th game their results are removed and the table is affected.

If they go bust after the 46th game of the seasonbut before the play off final. then the team in 23rd (in our leagues case) is spared relegation (it doesn't state how the rest of the league is affected, I would assume that everyone below them would move up a spot.) so Bury and 24th will be relegated out the league. A complication could be if Bury take an automatic spot but then go bust before the play off final. Do both finalists then get promoted or do they save a relegation all the way up the leagues to the Premier league?

Or if its after the play off final but before the start of next season then league 1 will operate on 23 teams and only 3 relegation spots.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby marker_mtfc95 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:20 pm

Bury should have points deducted.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:30 am

If Bury win automatic promotion and then go bust after the Play Off Final then it it looks like League 1 will just run with 23 clubs next season.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:52 am

And if Bolton go to the wall as well then they will run with two short.

And if Coventry have nowhere to play they will run with three short.
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