Bury FC Courtcase

[Jamie]

They should ban loans from owners.

Then us & probably most of L1 & L2 will cease to exist.

No it would ensure teams are run properly. It also doesn't stop gifting of money. If a rich supporter wants to subsidise a club every year that's fine. Do it via sponsorship or gifting (just cuts out the tax dodge).

I'm not saying you only have run on what you earn. Just that practices like spending beyond your means, owners using loans to avoid tax and keep clubs by the balls (us) is just wrong and should be stopped.

[Sweden Stag]

EFL should have done this after the end of last season: Demote Bolton to League Two and deny Bury promotion. No reprevie for the teams finishing 21th and 22nd in League One. Promotion to League One for Newport as losing playoff finalists and for the Stags by finishing fourth in League Two and also getting their 2nd leg of the playoff semifinal into extra time. A slap in the face for the owners of Bolton and Bury which have mismanaged both clubs. Worse for their players and fans to be put up with off-field mismanagement. Enough printed.

And by the way, I am old enough to remember when Peterborough were demoted from the third tier decades ago. The side which befinitted from that demotion were in fact the Stags. Then in 21th position in the old Third Division.

[halifaxstag]

Bolton Wanderers to be closed down from Wednesday - Statement by Administrators

"In just over 24 hours, the club will have its membership of the EFL revoked. Over and above that, the club is currently not in a position to carry on trading and, as such, the process of closing down the company will commence on Wednesday."

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/august ... 6g.twitter

https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/2019/august ... anderers5/

Not quite understanding that? Does it mean they won't be kicked out?

If there is no buyer or money by tomorrow, the EFL will lift the suspension on issing the withdrawal notice. Its worded badly but means the EFL have not yet issued notice to withdraw them (giving them time to find a solution) but the club cant afford to keep running past Tuesday so will start to liquidate and the EFL will serve notice to withdraw them tomorrow if no money comes forward.

That’s not quite true. The EFL DID issue a notice of withdrawal to both Bolton and Bury during the close season. These were suspended on proviso that they provided evidence that they could complete the 19/20 season. This could be by either the current owner providing evidence of funds or that a credible buyer has funds.
In Bolton’s case that credible buyer has now pulled out so the suspension of the notice has been removed so the notice comes back into effect. They could survive if the deal gets revived by 5pm on Tuesday.
In Bury’s case, Steve Dale failed to provide evidence of funds or to find (as yet) a credible buyer. So their notice of withdrawal has come back into effect unless their buyer can complete and provide evidence of funds by 5pm tomorrow

[Jimstag]

Sad times but it feels a question of who’s next?

[wayno cordiniho]

Sad times but it feels a question of who’s next?

Accrington, Morecambe, Macclesfield, Crawley, Stevenage? All operating with no real fan base or mega rich owners

[oldweststander]

The EFL has to get together with all League 1 and 2 clubs and fix a maximum wage.

How sustainable is it for clubs in the lower leagues to pay £4k a week to players when a few of seasons ago even the very best players would only be on around £2k a week.
£100k a year for average footballers, obviously not sustainable.

[I am Spartacus]

This week may set a worrying precedent. HMRC and other creditors calling in loans, ‘investors’ running for the hills because unlike previously the EFL are prepared to expel clubs due to lack of funds and or promise of funds.

At which point will the finger pointing begin rather than have meaningful debate about the future of football other than that of the top league?

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Bury fans have been cleaning up their stadium today but I still think there is a good chance either C&N Sporting Risk will pull out tomorrow as they come to their senses that they will be handing over £3-£4 million for a basket case; or more likely, Steve Dale suddenly wants more money.

Bolton's 14 day withdrawal notice has not started yet but if the administrators start closing down the club on Wednesday then it is going to be hard to suddenly get things up and running again.

The EFL also need to serve a 14 day expulsion notice on Macclesfield if they still have not paid their players in full from last season.

[chip63]

Are we all going to end up as feeder clubs to the chosen few?
I think forest have 40 players on the books.

[Amber Andy]

Are we all going to end up as feeder clubs to the chosen few?
I think forest have 40 players on the books.

No. I think once one EFL club goes others will follow. There are enough ambitious, well run National League clubs that are ready, willing, and able to replace them.

[EdwinstoweStag]

Are we all going to end up as feeder clubs to the chosen few?
I think forest have 40 players on the books.

I think I heard that Chelsea had over 40 players out ON LOAN last season.

[NorthLondonStag]

The sad fact is that it is nigh on impossible to run a decent club, with its infrastructure, in the lower leagues without making a significant loss. Throw in a promotion push or a new ground and the figures become even bigger.

This has been the case for many years, but previously (someone who worked regularly with lower league clubs told me) the running loss was of about a couple of hundred thousand a year. A local businessman who could put that through that business’ books could run the club, after tax, for around 100 grand a year.

Now the figures are much bigger, primarily as a result of higher player wages that have trickled down from the premier league, but without the proportionate revenue.

So there’s a whole bunch of clubs that rely on wealthy owners, as we do for the Radfords.

The business model fails when the owners are not wealthy (or the club falls into the wrong hands). Or the wealthy owner runs out of cash or loses patience.

Eddie Davis put in 180 MILLION of his own money into Bolton.

There isn’t an easy answer to any of this. Wage caps aren’t going to work and getting the Premier League clubs to share more revenue would flow through to wages pretty quickly and then we are back where we started.

And then the owners have the fans on their backs to put more (of their) money into the club.

[EdwinstoweStag]

The sad fact is that it is nigh on impossible to run a decent club, with its infrastructure, in the lower leagues without making a significant loss. Throw in a promotion push or a new ground and the figures become even bigger.

This has been the case for many years, but previously (someone who worked regularly with lower league clubs told me) the running loss was of about a couple of hundred thousand a year. A local businessman who could put that through that business’ books could run the club, after tax, for around 100 grand a year.

Now the figures are much bigger, primarily as a result of higher player wages that have trickled down from the premier league, but without the proportionate revenue.

So there’s a whole bunch of clubs that rely on wealthy owners, as we do for the Radfords.

The business model fails when the owners are not wealthy (or the club falls into the wrong hands). Or the wealthy owner runs out of cash or loses patience.

Eddie Davis put in 180 MILLION of his own money into Bolton.

There isn’t an easy answer to any of this. Wage caps aren’t going to work and getting the Premier League clubs to share more revenue would flow through to wages pretty quickly and then we are back where we started.

And then the owners have the fans on their backs to put more (of their) money into the club.

Not so much a vicious circle - more a wicked whirlpool.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

A quote from a recent David Conn article:

"At Bury itself, loans now up to £3.7m, secured on Gigg Lane, were taken from an outfit called Capital Bridging Finance Solutions, based in Crosby, with 40% commissions paid to still-unnamed third parties as introduction fees. The publicly filed documents state that Capital in turn mortgaged Bury’s ground to a company registered in Malta, whose own lenders for the deal were eight companies domiciled in the offshore tax haven of the British Virgin Islands."

Good luck to C&N Sporting Risk sorting that one out before 5.00pm today while their solicitor is on holiday. They need to do a deal on the ground before they buy Bury otherwise they have no leverage to get the interest and secured loan reduced. Norman Smurthwaite wanted Capital Bridging Finance to accept £1.5 million to clear the secured loan as he said that was all they would be likely to get from selling the ground.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

The EFL has been completely incompetent and negligent when it comes to Bolton and Bury. Meanwhile Shaun Harvey's salary tripled from £165,000 to £449,000.

It was apparently Dean Holdsworth who set up the £4 million loan paying an interest rate of 24%

[Blackburn Stag]

Bury suspended ticket sales for this weekend's game this morning after starting to sell them yesterday.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Bury buyers rightly cautious about signing blind on a deal. They will never agree this by 5.00pm

[RudyDude]

I dare say that this has already been mentioned, that it isn't just the football squad who lose their jobs but also a large number of off-field jobs are lost as well. (150-ish, I saw for one of the clubs in an article) Then there are all the local businesses, plus their employees, who benefit from the trade generated. And some of them are probably amongst the creditors who will see next to nothing after liquidation.

Whatever the ultimate reason and responsibility for the demise, the ripple effect spreads a long way.

[arsene wengers coat]

A quote from a recent David Conn article:

"At Bury itself, loans now up to £3.7m, secured on Gigg Lane, were taken from an outfit called Capital Bridging Finance Solutions, based in Crosby, with 40% commissions paid to still-unnamed third parties as introduction fees. The publicly filed documents state that Capital in turn mortgaged Bury’s ground to a company registered in Malta, whose own lenders for the deal were eight companies domiciled in the offshore tax haven of the British Virgin Islands."

Good luck to C&N Sporting Risk sorting that one out before 5.00pm today while their solicitor is on holiday. They need to do a deal on the ground before they buy Bury otherwise they have no leverage to get the interest and secured loan reduced. Norman Smurthwaite wanted Capital Bridging Finance to accept £1.5 million to clear the secured loan as he said that was all they would be likely to get from selling the ground.

Bridging loans are common in real estate, especially if a buyer is lined up and heads of terms agreed. They are generally high interest because they are usually very short. Like a payday loan.

Not so good news if the buyer drops out though.

Both bury and Bolton are looking gonna's for me.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

There are reports stating that the Bury takeover has collapsed

[Tippy Tappy Football]

[Tippy Tappy Football]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... e-deadline

[adamstag]

How many more chances though? can't have another game off at the weekend surely?

[Chrisuknottm]

How many more chances though? can't have another game off at the weekend surely?

Whilst I have no underlying wish to see a famous old club go to the wall it really winds me up that there is seemingly no extra consequence to Bury failing to fulfill not just one but multiple fixtures. They've been deducted 12 points already but nothing extra is seemingly being suggested. Clubs in the past have had the book thrown at them for fielding reserve teams in competitive games or missing just one fixture.

If by chance they survive they need to be automatically relegated at least to League 2 if not the National Conference.

[arsene wengers coat]

Not surprisingly, the interested party won't sign an agreement when they don't know what they're signing for...

Omni-shambles.

As harsh as it is, this limbo makes the EFL look totally dysfunctional and inept.

Either eject them both, or release a statement saying they're going to sort them out. This limbo is really bad for the game. I understand that if the EFL do help sort out bury and Bolton they set a very dangerous precedent for other clubs and owners who play by the rules who may now look to push the boat out knowing there is no punishment for not playing by the rules.

Best thing for the game is to get rid of them. Loads of teams have started again. AFC Wimbledon did... Look how well they're run now.