MTFC AGM, Thursday 15 November 2018

[spanishstag]

Is anyone else sceptical as to how successful a hotel in Mansfield can be? As a town we're not really a tourist or business hotbed are we?

They have one in daybrook ,slap bang on the main a60 route that does ok ,mansfield and the surrounding areas have a lot to offer

[MTFCMusings]

Is anyone else sceptical as to how successful a hotel in Mansfield can be? As a town we're not really a tourist or business hotbed are we?

They have one in daybrook ,slap bang on the main a60 route that does ok ,mansfield and the surrounding areas have a lot to offer

I can understand Nottingham, but not Mansfield.

But looking at what others have said seems there will be plenty of business demand.

[AlfStag]

Conference facilities, one off special events, decent restaurant etc If it's more than just a place to stay and provides a variety of the right facilities at competitive rates it would do well I'm sure.

[Sedgwick]

I stay in hotels all over the place because of football. The best experiences are when you can stay as close to the ground as possible...

First game of the season this year I stayed at the hotel joined on to the Madjeski in Reading, incredibly busy full of both football fans and business, it was hard to get a room and the cost my company payed was very expensive. The hotel at one call will be great for the club.

I also believe they do offers for traveling fans that includes a parking space and a slight discount on the room and resturant with your ticket.

[joey bananas]

No more chuffin off down to Casa at Chesterfield for me and the Mrs then if the hotel does get built.. or the whatever it's called nowadays up near the motorway jnc 27.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is that a lot of people just like a night away in a hotel somewhere for that nice feeling it gives you. It doesn't have to be miles away or in the middle of nowhere so a hotel at the side of the stadium would work for me. Nice bar, nice restaurant and maybe a bit of entertainment now and again would do for me.

[whipster221073]

Is anyone else sceptical as to how successful a hotel in Mansfield can be? As a town we're not really a tourist or business hotbed are we?

No, I work in Scunthorpe, that tourist and business hotspot.
Theyve got a Travelodge, Premier Inn and Forest Pines as well as some smaller Pubs and B&B's with accomodation.
Premier Inn has just been extended and most nights it's still not big enough and is always full.

Hotel would do very well.

[HU7stag]

Probably mostly for people whom are working at / visiting the dirty craphole that is British Steel.

[Vice President]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

[The One]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

[Bradders]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Has JR said how much rent the Hampton will bring in? Obviously yes, as people seem to be quoting comparative revenue. But I can't find mention of this, although I must admit to not having searched a great amount. I'd expect that Hilton are pretty hard negotiators and won't be paying more than they have to.
I'd be surprised if it was more than the Bishop Street (assuming that the stand will have some sort of executive box arrangement), but I'm happy to be corrected.

[The One]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Has JR said how much rent the Hampton will bring in? Obviously yes, as people seem to be quoting comparative revenue. But I can't find mention of this, although I must admit to not having searched a great amount. I'd expect that Hilton are pretty hard negotiators and won't be paying more than they have to.
I'd be surprised if it was more than the Bishop Street (assuming that the stand will have some sort of executive box arrangement), but I'm happy to be corrected.

Simple bit of accountancy. A hotel used 24/7 every day against a stand used two weekly for nine months a year?

[Conker]

The hotel might not be busy enough to make money though? It’s going to cost to run.

[Bradders]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Has JR said how much rent the Hampton will bring in? Obviously yes, as people seem to be quoting comparative revenue. But I can't find mention of this, although I must admit to not having searched a great amount. I'd expect that Hilton are pretty hard negotiators and won't be paying more than they have to.
I'd be surprised if it was more than the Bishop Street (assuming that the stand will have some sort of executive box arrangement), but I'm happy to be corrected.

Simple bit of accountancy. A hotel used 24/7 every day against a stand used two weekly for nine months a year?

So what's the rent likely to be? Obviously Hilton intends to make a profit, but that's not relevant to the club except that they'll be happy to pay the rent. Although the rent might be paid all year, say £1000 per week for 52 weeks is £52000 before tax (people seem shy about quoting the figures so I could be way out with that guess). But would that pay back the costs of building the hotel, which are (I imagine) a lot more than a cheap stand and a row of executive boxes? And if the boxes are popular the takings could easily outstrip the hotel rent, even assuming that they only get used half the year?

[arsene wengers coat]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Youre confused.

The hotel would not be MTFC liability once let. It will generate a fixed revenue from an agreed long term lease, with exit clauses at say, 300k per annum. Once built the revenue generated by the operation of the hotel would solely be Hilton's. MTFC would likely burden the construction costs. At say £4m.

A new bishop Street stand would be an MTFC liability/asset only. Any increase in gates via the new stand would solely belong to MTFC.

Over a 40 yr program, the hotel lease would generate £12m plus inflation, less construction costs is £8m generated for the the club over 40 years.

The bishop Street would generate (say 2500 seats at 20 a ticket) 50k in ticket sales per game plus food and drink plus any out of match day incomes.

At 25 home games a season £12.5m revenue per season. Minus 25% as this may not be full every week. (But general direction of travel will hopefully be match day attendance growth over a 40 year period.)

= £937500 revenue per season.

£37.5m revenue generated over a 40 year program.

Even if you have to recoup construction costs at say £12m which is what Northamptons new stand was. Of course you need to add maintenance and stewarding costs too.

But generally It's £25m over 40 years. Well in advance of the 8m from the hotel.

Short term, the hotel is best on a cost to the club basis only. Medium to long term bishop Street is best due to significantly more revenue generated. Both projects likely to take 12years to wash their face / break even.

[Bradders]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Youre confused.

The hotel would not be MTFC liability once let. It will generate a fixed revenue from an agreed long term lease, with exit clauses at say, 200k per annum. Once built the revenue generated by the operation of the hotel would solely be Hilton's.

A new bishop Street stand would be an MTFC liability/asset only. Any increase in gates via the new stand would solely belong to MTFC.

Over a 40 yr program, the hotel lease would generate £8m plus inflation.

The bishop Street would generate (say 2500 seats at 20 a ticket) 50k in ticket sales per game plus food and drink plus any out of match day incomes.

At 25 home games a season £12.5m revenue per season. Minus 25% as this may not be full every week. (But general direction of travel will hopefully be match day attendance growth over a 40 year period.)

= £937500 revenue per season.

£37.5m revenue generated over a 40 year program.

Even if you have to recoup construction costs at say £12m which is what Northamptons new stand was. Of course you need to add maintenance and stewarding costs too.

But generally It's £25m over 40 years. Well in advance of the 8m from the hotel.

Short term, the hotel is best, medium to long term bishop Street is best.

You omitted construction costs for the hotel. If it's a lease then Hilton won't be chipping in. It's a complicated business compared to the stand.
One thing is for sure, JR will be aware of these risks and costs and will have a good contract drawn up.

[arsene wengers coat]

Amended original fag-packet viability assessment Bradders. See above.

[The One]

Sure i read somewhere that MDC have hotels around country, Donny for one, as income generators so must be profit in it?

[Bradders]

Amended original fag-packet viability assessment Bradders. See above.

Good assessment. It's obviously impossible to come up with anything realistic as we haven't been told what the plans are for the Bishop Street stand, so no criticism of your fag-packet effort. So the Bishop Street might cost three times the hotel, or less, or more, depending on which options are used. Same with the income from the stand - I doesn't have to be a fair-sized all-seater area. In fact that might be the least profitable option.

Personally, I think it's a bit daft asking for the views of the public without telling them what the options are exactly, how it would work, and what the likely figures are going to be.
You'd get a random result based on hearsay, misunderstandings and inaccuracies. If you just want to test the water and get a "gut feeling" response then there's still no point asking. Without any figures, we can only assume that both will be of equal financial benefit to the club. So everyone would be bound to go for the Bishop Street option as it's the only one that has a clear advantage, in that it improves the matchday experience.

[stagsfan6493]

Short term the bishop would reduced the atmosphere aswell - would mean our current 3900+ home fans would be split across 3 stands rather than 2..

[arsene wengers coat]

Bradders, it's all hypothetical. How can it be anything else. I am.a Development Manager and do real estate asset management for a living so have some semblance of how the club will make its decision.

I assume that the public vote was nothing more than a feeling of preference which will hold no sway. The truth is that both projects will have full support from the fan base.

Which ever is most viable should be prioritized.

[Big yella]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Youre confused.

The hotel would not be MTFC liability once let. It will generate a fixed revenue from an agreed long term lease, with exit clauses at say, 200k per annum. Once built the revenue generated by the operation of the hotel would solely be Hilton's.

A new bishop Street stand would be an MTFC liability/asset only. Any increase in gates via the new stand would solely belong to MTFC.

Over a 40 yr program, the hotel lease would generate £8m plus inflation.

The bishop Street would generate (say 2500 seats at 20 a ticket) 50k in ticket sales per game plus food and drink plus any out of match day incomes.

At 25 home games a season £12.5m revenue per season. Minus 25% as this may not be full every week. (But general direction of travel will hopefully be match day attendance growth over a 40 year period.)

= £937500 revenue per season.

£37.5m revenue generated over a 40 year program.

Even if you have to recoup construction costs at say £12m which is what Northamptons new stand was. Of course you need to add maintenance and stewarding costs too.

But generally It's £25m over 40 years. Well in advance of the 8m from the hotel.

Short term, the hotel is best, medium to long term bishop Street is best.

You omitted construction costs for the hotel. If it's a lease then Hilton won't be chipping in. It's a complicated business compared to the stand.
One thing is for sure, JR will be aware of these risks and costs and will have a good contract drawn up.

You seem to have made one massive error in your profit calculations for the new stand. Where are these 2,500 (1,875 with your 25% variable) coming from. That's right, the IGU. the IGL and the QLE. Where is your calculation for the loss of earnings from the other stands?

You cannot be naive enough to believe just rebuilding the Bishop Street Stand will attract us circa 2,000 new fans, can you? The only extra money the new stand will generate will come from the extra people it draws through the turnstile on a regular basis.

I believe your figures need to be seriously revised. Just building it will put no more than a couple of hundred on the gate if we are lucky. and

[arsene wengers coat]

I take your point in the first years. But the general rule of thumb for calculating viability of a new building is over a 40yr program. Therefore this assumption was made on the potential of fans through the turnstile of the Bishop Street stand only over this period, and on the assumption that we have increased crowds over this timeframe. I can not be expected to accurately forecast the attendance profile for the entire stadium over the full program. Agree there will be wider effects which can not be considered at this stage, such as people moving around the ground etc.

But you are right though. This is why it needs to be approached as an asset management piece. You're looking at it from an asset management perspective.

Other assumptions made are ticket prices and number of home matches a season. Haven't taken into account season tickets either.

Like I said its a fag-packet.

[DE STAG]

Perhaps John and Carolyn aren't looking at this purely from the cost v revenue angle, but rather canvassing opinion on what the fans see as most beneficial to the fans.

[PEAR CIDER]

Hotel should be the priority. One brings in money and one doesn’t.

A new stand could bring in money.

Yes a pittance compared to hotel

Youre confused.

The hotel would not be MTFC liability once let. It will generate a fixed revenue from an agreed long term lease, with exit clauses at say, 200k per annum. Once built the revenue generated by the operation of the hotel would solely be Hilton's.

A new bishop Street stand would be an MTFC liability/asset only. Any increase in gates via the new stand would solely belong to MTFC.

Over a 40 yr program, the hotel lease would generate £8m plus inflation.

The bishop Street would generate (say 2500 seats at 20 a ticket) 50k in ticket sales per game plus food and drink plus any out of match day incomes.

At 25 home games a season £12.5m revenue per season. Minus 25% as this may not be full every week. (But general direction of travel will hopefully be match day attendance growth over a 40 year period.)

= £937500 revenue per season.

£37.5m revenue generated over a 40 year program.

Even if you have to recoup construction costs at say £12m which is what Northamptons new stand was. Of course you need to add maintenance and stewarding costs too.

But generally It's £25m over 40 years. Well in advance of the 8m from the hotel.

Short term, the hotel is best, medium to long term bishop Street is best.

You omitted construction costs for the hotel. If it's a lease then Hilton won't be chipping in. It's a complicated business compared to the stand.
One thing is for sure, JR will be aware of these risks and costs and will have a good contract drawn up.

as well as expecting it to fill.....

As it currently stands all its going to do is move people around the ground that already go....

Edit, make it an away stand

[Big yella]

I take your point in the first years. But the general rule of thumb for calculating viability of a new building is over a 40yr program. Therefore this assumption was made on the potential of fans through the turnstile of the Bishop Street stand only over this period, and on the assumption that we have increased crowds over this timeframe. I can not be expected to accurately forecast the attendance profile for the entire stadium over the full program. Agree there will be wider effects which can not be considered at this stage, such as people moving around the ground etc.

But you are right though. This is why it needs to be approached as an asset management piece. You're looking at it from an asset management perspective.

Other assumptions made are ticket prices and number of home matches a season. Haven't taken into account season tickets either.

Like I said its a fag-packet.

That's why I believe the hotel should come first. There will be a much more definable income projection. This invested on the pitch to increase our success rate is, I believe, the only way to guarantee larger crowds that then make a new stand financially viable. I think in this instance the adage " build it and they will come" should be adapted. Climb the leagues and they will come, then build it.