Can Stags finish in the TOP 3 ? (Be Wembley Winners?)

[Marky Mark]

I don’t get everyone’s point? If 80.1 points is the average for 4th place then surely 81 points should be the assumed target to go up, you only need to beat that by 1 point. You don’t need to match 3rd place, just beat 4th.

What happens to the team in third place then? Do they just disappear?

That’s a fair point

Personally I think 83/84 points will be enough, every year is different though of course. You do only have to beat the 4th place total, not 3rd.

You don't only have to beat 4th place to make it to 3rd, you have to beat 3rd place to make it to 3rd. If you beat 4th but not 3rd then you'll be 4th. The confusion lies in the fact that the numbers quoted are numbers for 4th place for some reason. It doesnt matter what 4th place does, its what 3rd place does that's important. Beating 4th just means that you take their place as 4th place, there will still be a team in 3rd.

It is a matter of opinion as to how you look at the figures. Your view is valid, but so is the original posters, in that if the team in fourth reached the average of 80 points and you get 81 then you are the third placed team and don't have to beat third.

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

[bellwhiff]

I don’t get everyone’s point? If 80.1 points is the average for 4th place then surely 81 points should be the assumed target to go up, you only need to beat that by 1 point. You don’t need to match 3rd place, just beat 4th.

What happens to the team in third place then? Do they just disappear?

That’s a fair point

Personally I think 83/84 points will be enough, every year is different though of course. You do only have to beat the 4th place total, not 3rd.

You don't only have to beat 4th place to make it to 3rd, you have to beat 3rd place to make it to 3rd. If you beat 4th but not 3rd then you'll be 4th. The confusion lies in the fact that the numbers quoted are numbers for 4th place for some reason. It doesnt matter what 4th place does, its what 3rd place does that's important. Beating 4th just means that you take their place as 4th place, there will still be a team in 3rd.

That just makes no sense.

[bellwhiff]

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

No. That means you e overtaken 5th.

You really aren’t thinking this through.

It’s like relegation. It doesn’t matter what the team third from bottom got I’ve the last X years. The only thing the team third from bottom need to do is get more points than second from bottom

[gazza1988]

Example, the current table. MK Dons are 5th with 47 points, Carlisle are 4th with 48 points. WE are 3rd with 51 points.

Are some really suggesting that if MK Dons would need 49 points to leapfrog 4th they would also leapfrog a team with more points?????

Scary.

So does that mean we only need to overtake Bury to take top spot? No matter how many points Lincoln get?

[Marky Mark]

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

No. That means you e overtaken 5th.

You really aren’t thinking this through.

It’s like relegation. It doesn’t matter what the team third from bottom got I’ve the last X years. The only thing the team third from bottom need to do is get more points than second from bottom

Ok, lets put this in Moto GP terms, the standings are this:

1 MARQUEZ 100 points
2 DOVIZIOSO 90 points
3 ROSSI 83.3 points
4 VIÑALES 81 points

5 BELLWHIFF

If you appear on your Honda 125 and get 82 points, you are therefore beating 4th place, but does beating 4th place on 82 points mean that you are in 3rd place or 4th place?

[Big yella]

What happens to the team in third place then? Do they just disappear?

That’s a fair point

Personally I think 83/84 points will be enough, every year is different though of course. You do only have to beat the 4th place total, not 3rd.

You don't only have to beat 4th place to make it to 3rd, you have to beat 3rd place to make it to 3rd. If you beat 4th but not 3rd then you'll be 4th. The confusion lies in the fact that the numbers quoted are numbers for 4th place for some reason. It doesnt matter what 4th place does, its what 3rd place does that's important. Beating 4th just means that you take their place as 4th place, there will still be a team in 3rd.

It is a matter of opinion as to how you look at the figures. Your view is valid, but so is the original posters, in that if the team in fourth reached the average of 80 points and you get 81 then you are the third placed team and don't have to beat third.

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

If when the season is all over the team in fourth has reached the average points total from the last few years, 80 points, and we have 81 then we have finished at least third. Haven't we?

This is not about overtaking people whilst the season is on going. If the team in fourth gets the average points for that position and we get more we are promoted. As a guide getting at least 81 points usually achieves this.

[Stags 2002]

Regardless of top 3 more importantly today 51 points should see us safe.

Next step is push on for a guaranteed top half finish.

[Big yella]

Anyway, as we talk about this look what Clownty are talking about. From their site..

Points required to stay up
If everybody was to maintain their current average pts per game, we're currently looking at 3rd bottom finishing with 46 points,

Points of the League Two team relegated in 23rd place since 2005.......

2017/18 - 46
2016/17 - 46
2015/16 - 34 (team in 22nd finished with 43 pts)
2014/15 - 41
2013/14 - 50
2012/13 - 51
2011/12 - 44
2010/11 - 47
2009/10 - 44
2008/09 - 37 (would have been 41 without pts deductions)
2007/08 - 42
2006/07 - 36 (would have been 46 without pts deductions)
2005/06 - 49
2004/05 - 38 (would have been 40 without pts deductions)

So I think Notts would have to be looking at 47 to have a reasonably decent chance, so we'd need 26 more points from 18 games, that's an average of 1.44 points per game, with which over the course of a full season you'd end up with 66 points, top half form.

Anyone feel sorry for them. Naahh didn't think so.

MIND THE GAP.

[Marky Mark]

That’s a fair point

Personally I think 83/84 points will be enough, every year is different though of course. You do only have to beat the 4th place total, not 3rd.

You don't only have to beat 4th place to make it to 3rd, you have to beat 3rd place to make it to 3rd. If you beat 4th but not 3rd then you'll be 4th. The confusion lies in the fact that the numbers quoted are numbers for 4th place for some reason. It doesnt matter what 4th place does, its what 3rd place does that's important. Beating 4th just means that you take their place as 4th place, there will still be a team in 3rd.

It is a matter of opinion as to how you look at the figures. Your view is valid, but so is the original posters, in that if the team in fourth reached the average of 80 points and you get 81 then you are the third placed team and don't have to beat third.

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

If when the season is all over the team in fourth has reached the average points total from the last few years, 80 points, and we have 81 then we have finished at least third. Haven't we?

This is not about overtaking people whilst the season is on going. If the team in fourth gets the average points for that position and we get more we are promoted. As a guide getting at least 81 points usually achieves this.

No, it doesnt mean that. If the team in fourth get the average points for 4th (80 points) and the team in the third get the average points for 3rd (83 points), then beating 4th only makes a difference if we beat 3rd too. If we get 82 points and the 3rd place team gets the average (83 points) then we are 4th even though we beat the average for 4th.

[bellwhiff]

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

No. That means you e overtaken 5th.

You really aren’t thinking this through.

It’s like relegation. It doesn’t matter what the team third from bottom got I’ve the last X years. The only thing the team third from bottom need to do is get more points than second from bottom

Ok, lets put this in Moto GP terms, the standings are this:

1 MARQUEZ 100 points
2 DOVIZIOSO 90 points
3 ROSSI 83.3 points
4 VIÑALES 81 points

5 BELLWHIFF

If you appear on your Honda 125 and get 82 points, you are therefore beating 4th place, but does beating 4th place on 82 points mean that you are in 3rd place or 4th place?

You’re looking at this all wrong. 4 would be Viñales on 80 and we would be Rossi on 81.

[Big yella]

You don't only have to beat 4th place to make it to 3rd, you have to beat 3rd place to make it to 3rd. If you beat 4th but not 3rd then you'll be 4th. The confusion lies in the fact that the numbers quoted are numbers for 4th place for some reason. It doesnt matter what 4th place does, its what 3rd place does that's important. Beating 4th just means that you take their place as 4th place, there will still be a team in 3rd.

It is a matter of opinion as to how you look at the figures. Your view is valid, but so is the original posters, in that if the team in fourth reached the average of 80 points and you get 81 then you are the third placed team and don't have to beat third.

Just because you beat 4th doesnt automatically mean you're 3rd. It means you've overtaken 4th, 4th then move down a place and you take their place in 4th. Third is unaffected. Thats how tables work.

If when the season is all over the team in fourth has reached the average points total from the last few years, 80 points, and we have 81 then we have finished at least third. Haven't we?

This is not about overtaking people whilst the season is on going. If the team in fourth gets the average points for that position and we get more we are promoted. As a guide getting at least 81 points usually achieves this.

No, it doesnt mean that. If the team in fourth get the average points for 4th (80 points) and the team in the third get the average points for 3rd (83 points), then beating 4th only makes a difference if we beat 3rd too. If we get 82 points and the 3rd place team gets the average (83 points) then we are 4th even though we beat the average for 4th.

Mark the season is over. The final table has been printed. The team in fourth has reached 80 points. If we have reached 81 points we are the team in third. We don't need to overtake ourselves.

[bellwhiff]

No, it doesnt mean that. If the team in fourth get the average points for 4th (80 points) and the team in the third get the average points for 3rd (83 points), then beating 4th only makes a difference if we beat 3rd too. If we get 82 points and the 3rd place team gets the average (83 points) then we are 4th even though we beat the average for 4th.

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

[Old timer]

Even if we can't finish in the top 3 I reckon these lads have the spirit to get us through as play off winners which isn't something I could have said about some of our previous squads.

[gazza1988]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.

In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

[gazza1988]

If you are still struggling take a race of any kind, like motocross.

You are in 5th, you overtake the next racer in front of you do you take 3rd? No you take 4th, pushing the rider down a position.

Next corner you are still in 4th but overtake one more! Are you 3rd or 2nd? 3rd obviously, it's really not that difficult.

You're in 3rd. you overtake one more. Are you 2nd or 1st? 2nd.

Guess what last corner, you're 2nd. You overtake him!!! are you 1st or ???? what's above 1st, by your logic there should be another position to jump into.

[Sneag]

Let's just finish in the top 1 and save all the pissing about.

[Big yella]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.

In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

Let me help you. The season is over this is the table.

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 81 points after 46 games
4th Team D 80 points after 46 games

The team in fourth has 80 points. We have 81 points. We are the team in third. We don't need to overtake anybody.

[Staggyfox]

Regardless of top 3 more importantly today 51 points should see us safe.

Next step is push on for a guaranteed top half finish.

Now that’s more like it......

[Staggyfox]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.

In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

Brilliant.......

[Staggyfox]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.




In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

Let me help you. The season is over this is the table.

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 81 points after 46 games
4th Team D 80 points after 46 games

The team in fourth has 80 points. We have 81 points. We are the team in third. We don't need to overtake anybody.

Yes....I see your point, but it is flawed.....team D was in 3rd place till team C won its last game...so to get promoted you have to get more points than the team currently in third......

Best thing to do is go and have a nap....it won’t seem so important in the morning

[88BenM]

You've all managed to turn a statistics thread boring. Some achievemen

[The One]

Spiro and myself happy we have reached the magic 51 points, that's all we ask at beginning of every season

[Marky Mark]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.

In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

Let me help you. The season is over this is the table.

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 81 points after 46 games
4th Team D 80 points after 46 games

The team in fourth has 80 points. We have 81 points. We are the team in third. We don't need to overtake anybody.

We aren't the team in third because, according to the data provided back in a previous page, the team in the third have 83.1 points on average and the team in 4th have 80.1 points on average, so having 81 points would put you in 4th, not third - therefore not enough for automatic promotion, that's the whole point of this - what points on average do you need to be in 3rd place? And the answer is 83.1 but because you cant get fractions of points then the answer is on average 84 points. 3rd place 83.1 points and 4th place 81.1 are your anchor points, they don't change. Anything lower than 83.1 will put you lower than 3rd place, but not in 3rd place, according to the data provided.

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 83.1 points after 46 games
4th Team D 80.1 points after 46 games

[Big yella]

Nooooooooo. We are third !! If fourth is 80 then we only need 81. Someone help him out ?

I'll try and help you belly.

How about this hypothetical league table:

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 85 points after 46 games
4th Team D 83 points after 45 games
5th Team E 81 points after 45 games

By some freak accident Team D and E face each other after the last game of the season. it is the only game.

Are you suggesting that if Team E beats Team D in that final game they get 3rd? even though they would have 83 points (3 points for a win rememeber) and 3rd finished with 85

You see 85, 89 and 90 are BIGGER numbers than 83. Hence the top 3 are the 3 sides with the most points. Remember you go above the TEAM and not the POSITION. Team E would replace Team D in 4th moving team D DOWN a place.




In that scenario the ONLY result that would take 3rd Would be a Team D WIN. They would be on 86 points and with 90, 89 and 86 being a BIGGER number than 85 Team D would overtake Team C and REPLACE them in 3rd.

Let me help you. The season is over this is the table.

1st Team A 90points after 46 games
2nd Team B 89points after 46 games
3rd Team C 81 points after 46 games
4th Team D 80 points after 46 games

The team in fourth has 80 points. We have 81 points. We are the team in third. We don't need to overtake anybody.

Yes....I see your point, but it is flawed.....team D was in 3rd place till team C won its last game...so to get promoted you have to get more points than the team currently in third......

Best thing to do is go and have a nap....it won’t seem so important in the morning

Oh my God. Why are people obsessed with over taking fourth. Team D didn't have to be in third and us overtake them. We could already be third on 78 points with fourth on 77points. Both teams win their last game.

The fourth placed team have finished on the average 80 points for that position. We have finished on 81 points and finished third. We didn't have to overtake them to get there we were already there.

[Stoney]

Were going to get 86+ anyway.

Can we start a post on who we want relegating from the championship yet?