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Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby HU7stag » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:05 pm

ParisStag wrote:It's a bit of a leap into the unknown now for them. The security Allen brings will be gone and the new group probably won't be able to finance the club sustainably. I imagine their plan will be to facilitate a sale to a more able owner as soon as possible, but there's no guarantee they'll find someone. It's similar to the situation we had immediately post-Haslam. Could go either way for them.


And wouldn't he make the most fitting owner for them!
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:57 pm

I think the previous attempt at the fans running the club via the Supporters Trust was essentially killed off by the collapse of ITV Digital.

Unfortunately the fans are in a similar situation now. How are they going to pay existing players during the current lockdown or any subsequent lockdown? Have their players been furloughed?

They will need to carefully word contracts with players to give them the right to terminate early or reduce salaries if there is another lockdown. They might only be able to afford to employ new players on a month to month basis.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby bellwhiff » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:13 pm

I hope they never come back.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:53 pm

Woodclanger 1 wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Congratulations to the Chesterfield Community Trust and well done to Derbyshire County Council and Chesterfield Borough Council. I very much doubt the Stags would have received the same support from Notts County Council and Mansfield District Council.

The Community Trust have a massive job on their hands including having 10 players under contract who they cannot afford. I've seen talk already of Chesterfield building a promotion winning squad but the Community Trust need to lower everybody's expectations and just aim for survival for the first 2-3 seasons. They may also need to drop down to National League North as part of the rebuilding process. They have got an extremely hard job on their hands and it can be a hard slog for supporter owned clubs as the likes of Wrexham, Chester and Darlington have discovered. Good luck to them. I will be happy to see them back in the Football League once they have served their 5 years.


I'd have thought MDC might have chipped in for the sheep too, afterall they invest money in most things apart from their own town :lol:

So you either didn't read, or chose to completely ignore the previous page of this thread just to have a dig at MDC ? Well done.
And just for reference, all the property investments were under the previous administration.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby smulls » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:13 pm

bellwhiff wrote:I hope they never come back.


Hear Hear :good_post:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:56 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Woodclanger 1 wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Congratulations to the Chesterfield Community Trust and well done to Derbyshire County Council and Chesterfield Borough Council. I very much doubt the Stags would have received the same support from Notts County Council and Mansfield District Council.

The Community Trust have a massive job on their hands including having 10 players under contract who they cannot afford. I've seen talk already of Chesterfield building a promotion winning squad but the Community Trust need to lower everybody's expectations and just aim for survival for the first 2-3 seasons. They may also need to drop down to National League North as part of the rebuilding process. They have got an extremely hard job on their hands and it can be a hard slog for supporter owned clubs as the likes of Wrexham, Chester and Darlington have discovered. Good luck to them. I will be happy to see them back in the Football League once they have served their 5 years.


I'd have thought MDC might have chipped in for the sheep too, afterall they invest money in most things apart from their own town :lol:

So you either didn't read, or chose to completely ignore the previous page of this thread just to have a dig at MDC ? Well done.
And just for reference, all the property investments were under the previous administration.


Of course I read it but still like a dig, the laughing emoji also shows it was a tongue in cheek dig you humourless twonk.
Jeez I bet it was fun in lockdown in your house? : :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Spiritater » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:23 pm

Amberheart wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Congratulations to the Chesterfield Community Trust and well done to Derbyshire County Council and Chesterfield Borough Council. I very much doubt the Stags would have received the same support from Notts County Council and Mansfield District Council.

The Community Trust have a massive job on their hands including having 10 players under contract who they cannot afford. I've seen talk already of Chesterfield building a promotion winning squad but the Community Trust need to lower everybody's expectations and just aim for survival for the first 2-3 seasons. They may also need to drop down to National League North as part of the rebuilding process. They have got an extremely hard job on their hands and it can be a hard slog for supporter owned clubs as the likes of Wrexham, Chester and Darlington have discovered. Good luck to them. I will be happy to see them back in the Football League once they have served their 5 years.

They’ve done it all before , I remember the smug digs disguised as talks they gave us at the civic centre .
Their Councils have realised that the club brings more money into the area
Unlike MDC .
6 years in the pit of misery will do for them


For me MDC showed how little regard they had for t'Stags when they wanted to charge t'club 15000 pounds to end BSP parade in the market square. Quite rightly JR told em to do one.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:28 pm

Spiritater wrote:
Amberheart wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Congratulations to the Chesterfield Community Trust and well done to Derbyshire County Council and Chesterfield Borough Council. I very much doubt the Stags would have received the same support from Notts County Council and Mansfield District Council.

The Community Trust have a massive job on their hands including having 10 players under contract who they cannot afford. I've seen talk already of Chesterfield building a promotion winning squad but the Community Trust need to lower everybody's expectations and just aim for survival for the first 2-3 seasons. They may also need to drop down to National League North as part of the rebuilding process. They have got an extremely hard job on their hands and it can be a hard slog for supporter owned clubs as the likes of Wrexham, Chester and Darlington have discovered. Good luck to them. I will be happy to see them back in the Football League once they have served their 5 years.

They’ve done it all before , I remember the smug digs disguised as talks they gave us at the civic centre .
Their Councils have realised that the club brings more money into the area
Unlike MDC .
6 years in the pit of misery will do for them


For me MDC showed how little regard they had for t'Stags when they wanted to charge t'club 15000 pounds to end BSP parade in the market square. Quite rightly JR told em to do one.


True but now you're forrit, Dave Bruce Wayne will want to kapow you :lol:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:45 am

stagmanrob wrote:What an absolute joke this is.

As taxpayers in the Chesterfield area, does that mean myself, Random Hero, and mansfield_smooth on here can class ourselves as part owners of a pee poor little Non League club? :lol:

Absolutely no way that they will be able to pay that loan back, it's ridiculous.


any idea when it will have to be paid back? Can see them going part time for a while.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:20 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:What an absolute joke this is.

As taxpayers in the Chesterfield area, does that mean myself, Random Hero, and mansfield_smooth on here can class ourselves as part owners of a pee poor little Non League club? :lol:

Absolutely no way that they will be able to pay that loan back, it's ridiculous.


any idea when it will have to be paid back? Can see them going part time for a while.
They have 15 years to pay it back.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Bros » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:20 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:What an absolute joke this is.

As taxpayers in the Chesterfield area, does that mean myself, Random Hero, and mansfield_smooth on here can class ourselves as part owners of a pee poor little Non League club? :lol:

Absolutely no way that they will be able to pay that loan back, it's ridiculous.


any idea when it will have to be paid back? Can see them going part time for a while.
They have 15 years to pay it back.

With a bit of luck that's how long they'll be down there in the Pit of Misery
I am just going inside and may be gone some time
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amberheart » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:20 am

I had to laugh at the Stags banter page , had Spireites shirt sponser as ‘Can’t Pay? we’ll take it away’
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:24 pm

Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby 88BenM » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:53 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.


Thankfully I pay NEDDC, so i won't have the stigma of owning a non-league football club :lol:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:11 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.
How can they justify that, especially in these difficult times ?
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:12 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.

No they haven't. Derbyshire County Council have said their half is taxpayers money. CBC have said theirs is coming from internal borrowing.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:16 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.

No they haven't. Derbyshire County Council have said their half is taxpayers money. CBC have said theirs is coming from internal borrowing.


Serious question Dave. If its internal borrowing does that mean that it's taxpayers money that they have saved in other budgets?
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:06 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.

No they haven't. Derbyshire County Council have said their half is taxpayers money. CBC have said theirs is coming from internal borrowing.


Serious question Dave. If its internal borrowing does that mean that it's taxpayers money that they have saved in other budgets?

Councils get money from various sources which makes it very difficult to specifically state where any of it actually comes from. The only priority is ensuring through cashflow management that you have money when you need it. The 'taxpayers' money as people call it is collected by the district councils, but the majority is then paid over to county councils, police and fire. Cash balances fluctuate throughout the year but surpluses are invested to generate income. All that these councils are doing is lending it to CFC instead of to a financial institution. With the base rate as low as it is, returns are very low at the moment, so if they can get a better return by loaning the money to CFC it is good financial management. By putting a legal charge on the ground they have guaranteed getting their money back as long as they have the bottle to evict the club for non-payment.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:23 pm

right because I don't really care ive not kept up but who owns them now? And if thieve had such a massive loan to buy the club how on earth are they going to fund the club?
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby spainmick » Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:06 pm

Having worked in Local Authority Treasury Management whilst still in England I can confirm that Dave Wayne knows what he is talking about...and a good guy as well.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby I am Spartacus » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:01 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.

No they haven't. Derbyshire County Council have said their half is taxpayers money. CBC have said theirs is coming from internal borrowing.


Serious question Dave. If its internal borrowing does that mean that it's taxpayers money that they have saved in other budgets?

Councils get money from various sources which makes it very difficult to specifically state where any of it actually comes from. The only priority is ensuring through cashflow management that you have money when you need it. The 'taxpayers' money as people call it is collected by the district councils, but the majority is then paid over to county councils, police and fire. Cash balances fluctuate throughout the year but surpluses are invested to generate income. All that these councils are doing is lending it to CFC instead of to a financial institution. With the base rate as low as it is, returns are very low at the moment, so if they can get a better return by loaning the money to CFC it is good financial management. By putting a legal charge on the ground they have guaranteed getting their money back as long as they have the bottle to evict the club for non-payment.


Invariably, because football clubs always do, Chesterfield FC will have to go to their owners and previous lenders for additional monies. Would they be able to do this from a local authority? Can an authority write off that sort of cash if things go spectacularly (hopefully) wrong.
You have said the loan is against the ground though look at the mess at Bury with the ground and even the car park mortgaged to the hilt.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Johnny H » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:30 pm

CFC will soon get a payment from Leeds Utd for Liam Cooper, rumoured to be £150k for gaining promotion
That will help them out !
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:06 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Chesterfield Borough Council have confirmed that their half of the loan is indeed from taxpayer's money.

No they haven't. Derbyshire County Council have said their half is taxpayers money. CBC have said theirs is coming from internal borrowing.


Serious question Dave. If its internal borrowing does that mean that it's taxpayers money that they have saved in other budgets?

Councils get money from various sources which makes it very difficult to specifically state where any of it actually comes from. The only priority is ensuring through cashflow management that you have money when you need it. The 'taxpayers' money as people call it is collected by the district councils, but the majority is then paid over to county councils, police and fire. Cash balances fluctuate throughout the year but surpluses are invested to generate income. All that these councils are doing is lending it to CFC instead of to a financial institution. With the base rate as low as it is, returns are very low at the moment, so if they can get a better return by loaning the money to CFC it is good financial management. By putting a legal charge on the ground they have guaranteed getting their money back as long as they have the bottle to evict the club for non-payment.


Invariably, because football clubs always do, Chesterfield FC will have to go to their owners and previous lenders for additional monies. Would they be able to do this from a local authority? Can an authority write off that sort of cash if things go spectacularly (hopefully) wrong.
You have said the loan is against the ground though look at the mess at Bury with the ground and even the car park mortgaged to the hilt.

Difficult to comment on whether they would be able to ask for further funding from the council. I guess it would be an option for them to make the request, and then the elected members would make a decision. But if they reason they needed to borrow more money was due to their initial financial plan not succeeding then I would think it highly unlikely that more money would be forthcoming. With the council securing the loan against the ground it suggests they have no intention of writing off the loan if things go wrong.
I am not in the legal profession so I don't fully understand how the 'legal charge' works that they have put on the ground, but it will be registered against the property with the Land Registry and would show up on any searches carried out if a mortgage application was made, and would therefore probably stop them from doing what happened at Bury.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby stagmanrob » Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:33 pm

Johnny H wrote:CFC will soon get a payment from Leeds Utd for Liam Cooper, rumoured to be £150k for gaining promotion
That will help them out !

True, but given the deal was struck under Dave Allen's tenure, and Leed's promotion has been confirmed already, I doubt the new owners will be getting that windfall.

Especially given they haven't even taken over the club yet and it is still Dave Allen's.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:34 pm

stagmanrob wrote:
Johnny H wrote:CFC will soon get a payment from Leeds Utd for Liam Cooper, rumoured to be £150k for gaining promotion
That will help them out !

True, but given the deal was struck under Dave Allen's tenure, and Leed's promotion has been confirmed already, I doubt the new owners will be getting that windfall.

Especially given they haven't even taken over the club yet and it is still Dave Allen's.

Given the millions Dave Allen has lost, I doubt that another £150k will make much difference to him.
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