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Next Season

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Next Season

Postby diablo » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:30 am

When we contracted Nigel Clough to be our Manager I remember him saying he needed time to build a team capable of promotion . Well he nearly achieved that last Season but unfortunately flopped at the final hurdle.

Looking at the current squad I offer the following as a possible outcome by the end of the Season

Players leaving or not retained :

Pym , Harbottle , Swan back to their parent Club although I hope Pym might possibly sign for us permanently

Not retained or retiring : Bowery , Johnson, Perch, Quinn , JJ O'Toole, Page , Knowles

The retained list possibly:..assuming he keeps our young players

Gordon, Macca, Hewitt, Hartigan, Akins, Clarke, Maris, Hawkins, Flinders, Law, Oates, Boateng, Lapslie, plus Gale, Mason, Cooper,

So I think around 10 players will be leaving ..a couple of others should go but we know they will be retained

So we are looking at an almost total rebuild...based on the current Manager's previous and somewhat underwhelming transfer dealings ...the question needs to be asked.."Is Nigel Clough still the right man to lead us forward ? " do we give him another year or What ?
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Re: Next Season

Postby zod » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:38 am

O'Toole has a contract till 2024 so can't see him leaving at the end of the season.
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Re: Next Season

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:45 am

Christ, not even Christmas yet :lol:
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Re: Next Season

Postby diablo » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:46 am

zod wrote:O'Toole has a contract till 2024 so can't see him leaving at the end of the season.



I suppose that comes under the heading of underwhelming transfer deals...it looked like a good idea at the time but not at the present
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Re: Next Season

Postby diablo » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:47 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:Christ, not even Christmas yet :lol:


none of us are getting any younger
;)
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Re: Next Season

Postby Amber Andy » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:51 am

We are only halfway through this season, so maybe we shouldn't be writing the season off just yet.

I do however feel we have hit a bump in the road which needs fixing this January. Our defence needs strengthening with two new defenders and possibly a striker. We are conceding too many easy goals and not taking our goal scoring opportunities.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Eastern Green Stag » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:55 am

zod wrote:O'Toole has a contract till 2024 so can't see him leaving at the end of the season.


this is were the club have messed up .. giving OAP's 2 year contracts .
Gordon & Akins must be added .. do nothing whatsoever to the team :roll:
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Re: Next Season

Postby AshoverStag » Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:20 am

Eastern Green Stag wrote:
zod wrote:O'Toole has a contract till 2024 so can't see him leaving at the end of the season.


this is were the club have messed up .. giving OAP's 2 year contracts .
Gordon & Akins must be added .. do nothing whatsoever to the team :roll:


I agree

I think I’m qualified to comment as I’ve only missed Grimsby Pizza cup including pre season. NC as a player was a hero of mine. So context is not wanting to be too negative…..but looking at his body language in the post Everton under 21 interview id be surprised if
1- JR has not told him he’s annoyed
2- JR will be watching season closely and no promotion NC is gone

I have tried to stay positive and yes I see we are not even half way through the season but …..ok we are not Managers, what we are is fans who watch and have opinions on what we see. Lots of valid posts on concerns. Yes there are no guarantees either way. As Saint, and Greavsies used to say “it’s a funny old game”

Who knows we could beat Colchester and go on a run. Buy in January and away we go. (Obviously I’d love this outcome)
More likely is small squad and injuries cost us and playing over the hill vets, out of position and poor tactics and sub timing

Next season wil be a re build. If we go up or if we don’t. The players with extended contracts is unfortunate but only consolation is we have them as sub back up, but we still paying wages and I can’t see Akins being cheap on rep. On signing I bet it was a fair amount of wages

Positive is that with a long standing spinal problem, plenty of meds and careful management I still manage to get to enjoy watching Stags

So I will be there to watch the ups and downs, but…………..I am now experiencing the “The stags never make it easy” scenario posted so much about :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Next Season

Postby YellaFella 75 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:39 pm

diablo wrote:When we contracted Nigel Clough to be our Manager I remember him saying he needed time to build a team capable of promotion . Well he nearly achieved that last Season but unfortunately flopped at the final hurdle.

Looking at the current squad I offer the following as a possible outcome by the end of the Season

Players leaving or not retained :

Pym , Harbottle , Swan back to their parent Club although I hope Pym might possibly sign for us permanently

Not retained or retiring : Bowery , Johnson, Perch, Quinn , JJ O'Toole, Page , Knowles

The retained list possibly:..assuming he keeps our young players

Gordon, Macca, Hewitt, Hartigan, Akins, Clarke, Maris, Hawkins, Flinders, Law, Oates, Boateng, Lapslie, plus Gale, Mason, Cooper,

So I think around 10 players will be leaving ..a couple of others should go but we know they will be retained

So we are looking at an almost total rebuild...based on the current Manager's previous and somewhat underwhelming transfer dealings ...the question needs to be asked.."Is Nigel Clough still the right man to lead us forward ? " do we give him another year or What ?

I do love a bit of negativity, we were shocking until Christmas last year and then ............
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Re: Next Season

Postby bigalstag1 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:00 pm

Last year was just that!
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Re: Next Season

Postby five to three » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:01 pm

YellaFella 75 wrote:
diablo wrote:When we contracted Nigel Clough to be our Manager I remember him saying he needed time to build a team capable of promotion . Well he nearly achieved that last Season but unfortunately flopped at the final hurdle.

Looking at the current squad I offer the following as a possible outcome by the end of the Season

Players leaving or not retained :

Pym , Harbottle , Swan back to their parent Club although I hope Pym might possibly sign for us permanently

Not retained or retiring : Bowery , Johnson, Perch, Quinn , JJ O'Toole, Page , Knowles

The retained list possibly:..assuming he keeps our young players

Gordon, Macca, Hewitt, Hartigan, Akins, Clarke, Maris, Hawkins, Flinders, Law, Oates, Boateng, Lapslie, plus Gale, Mason, Cooper,

So I think around 10 players will be leaving ..a couple of others should go but we know they will be retained

So we are looking at an almost total rebuild...based on the current Manager's previous and somewhat underwhelming transfer dealings ...the question needs to be asked.."Is Nigel Clough still the right man to lead us forward ? " do we give him another year or What ?

I do love a bit of negativity, we were shocking until Christmas last year and then ............


But we desperately need the 'and then...'
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Re: Next Season

Postby five to three » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:02 pm

It's two years on and it just doesn't look like we've built much.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:21 pm

YellaFella 75 wrote:
diablo wrote:When we contracted Nigel Clough to be our Manager I remember him saying he needed time to build a team capable of promotion . Well he nearly achieved that last Season but unfortunately flopped at the final hurdle.

Looking at the current squad I offer the following as a possible outcome by the end of the Season

Players leaving or not retained :

Pym , Harbottle , Swan back to their parent Club although I hope Pym might possibly sign for us permanently

Not retained or retiring : Bowery , Johnson, Perch, Quinn , JJ O'Toole, Page , Knowles

The retained list possibly:..assuming he keeps our young players

Gordon, Macca, Hewitt, Hartigan, Akins, Clarke, Maris, Hawkins, Flinders, Law, Oates, Boateng, Lapslie, plus Gale, Mason, Cooper,

So I think around 10 players will be leaving ..a couple of others should go but we know they will be retained

So we are looking at an almost total rebuild...based on the current Manager's previous and somewhat underwhelming transfer dealings ...the question needs to be asked.."Is Nigel Clough still the right man to lead us forward ? " do we give him another year or What ?

I do love a bit of negativity, we were shocking until Christmas last year and then ............


I think you will find our form picked up at the end of October and between then and Christmas we had put seven league wins on the board. That’s not counting the early season wins or those in cup competitions.

It was one of our most productive periods and was far better than anything we’ve produced so far this year.

I agree we are still in a reasonable position but recent form doesn’t suggest we will stay there. That said we mustn’t undermine confidence at a crucial stage of the season and need to see what January brings before rolling the guillotine out.
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Re: Next Season

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:38 pm

So far in his spell, Cloughy has proved he is adept at overseeing and creating a team whose level is somewhere between top ten and top five. He’s also more or less shown that at every club he’s managed.

With us, he’s yet to transform that into a side who can compete at the very top end of a division, and the last time he managed that feat was 14 years ago. The last time he achieve automatic promotion was 6 years ago, when he took over Burton in December 2015 at a time they were top of the league, so he can’t take credit for creating that side.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Costastag » Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:14 pm

As far as being qualified to comment like ashover stag ,we are going nowhere ,we might as well just forget any ambition under cloughie ,i got slated for my backing of coughlan ,but nigel is taking us nowhere in fact the only good players are coughlans signings lets just get to the end of the season and it must be adios amigo
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Re: Next Season

Postby Dave Wayne » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:34 pm

I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?
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Re: Next Season

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:54 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?


Yes this is correct. I would given the three out of contract players one year deals. Re O’Toole, I was delighted we persuaded him to stay but I didn’t like the length of contract.

The thing is I didn’t expect Perch or Quinn to be required to play as many minutes as they have. Quinn I don’t think has been as bad as some have made out, he’s still contributing.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Rob » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:30 am

Dave Wayne wrote:I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?


To be fair Dave we did predict what would happen, if you look back through the posts just before the deadline past many of us were saying the squad was too small and we desperately needed 2 centre backs and a striker. Had we signed those players and they had been better than some of the duffs Clough has signed, then I think we would be much higher in the league. Instead of signing a centre back we signed Hartigan, now what would you sooner have right now? It's absolutely not hindsight, this is what we were warning months ago and sadly what many of us predicted has happened. Our squad is too old, too slow, too small, imbalanced and lacking cover in key areas - in short it is not a squad representative of the budget the manager has been given. Our first eleven is very, very good, but you will never, ever be able to field your first eleven for 46 games so the squad composition is vital and it is abundantly clear Clough and his team have this wrong. Our very best players remain those here before Clough and co came to the club, which in itself is disappointing. Our performance last night 2nd half and at Harrogate was every bit as bad as anything under Coughlan and Dempster and after a great few months last season I do not think we have progressed.

I'm not one for sacking managers but for me Clough has January to sort this mess out, if he doesn't there is no way on earth would I be offering him a new deal in the summer and would be looking for a younger more ambitious manager, one prepared to blood younger players and one who knew that a right back is best played at right back etc, etc.
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Re: Next Season

Postby diablo » Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:22 am

Rob wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?


To be fair Dave we did predict what would happen, if you look back through the posts just before the deadline past many of us were saying the squad was too small and we desperately needed 2 centre backs and a striker. Had we signed those players and they had been better than some of the duffs Clough has signed, then I think we would be much higher in the league. Instead of signing a centre back we signed Hartigan, now what would you sooner have right now? It's absolutely not hindsight, this is what we were warning months ago and sadly what many of us predicted has happened. Our squad is too old, too slow, too small, imbalanced and lacking cover in key areas - in short it is not a squad representative of the budget the manager has been given. Our first eleven is very, very good, but you will never, ever be able to field your first eleven for 46 games so the squad composition is vital and it is abundantly clear Clough and his team have this wrong. Our very best players remain those here before Clough and co came to the club, which in itself is disappointing. Our performance last night 2nd half and at Harrogate was every bit as bad as anything under Coughlan and Dempster and after a great few months last season I do not think we have progressed.

I'm not one for sacking managers but for me Clough has January to sort this mess out, if he doesn't there is no way on earth would I be offering him a new deal in the summer and would be looking for a younger more ambitious manager, one prepared to blood younger players and one who knew that a right back is best played at right back etc, etc.


Good Post Rob
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Re: Next Season

Postby five to three » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:11 am

Rob wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?


To be fair Dave we did predict what would happen, if you look back through the posts just before the deadline past many of us were saying the squad was too small and we desperately needed 2 centre backs and a striker. Had we signed those players and they had been better than some of the duffs Clough has signed, then I think we would be much higher in the league. Instead of signing a centre back we signed Hartigan, now what would you sooner have right now? It's absolutely not hindsight, this is what we were warning months ago and sadly what many of us predicted has happened. Our squad is too old, too slow, too small, imbalanced and lacking cover in key areas - in short it is not a squad representative of the budget the manager has been given. Our first eleven is very, very good, but you will never, ever be able to field your first eleven for 46 games so the squad composition is vital and it is abundantly clear Clough and his team have this wrong. Our very best players remain those here before Clough and co came to the club, which in itself is disappointing. Our performance last night 2nd half and at Harrogate was every bit as bad as anything under Coughlan and Dempster and after a great few months last season I do not think we have progressed.

I'm not one for sacking managers but for me Clough has January to sort this mess out, if he doesn't there is no way on earth would I be offering him a new deal in the summer and would be looking for a younger more ambitious manager, one prepared to blood younger players and one who knew that a right back is best played at right back etc, etc.


Agreed. Two years on and we're not where we should be.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Eastern Green Stag » Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:25 am

five to three wrote:
Rob wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:I seem to quite clearly remember a long thread on here clamouring for Clough to get O'Toole signed up when his initial short term contract was coming to an end, and how relieved everyone was when it was sorted.

Bowery was the whipping boy on here when he first signed but last season he showed much better form and I don't remember any complaints when his contract was extended in the summer.

Likewise, Perch and Quinn also signed contract extensions and the general response was one of positivity.

Can someone please explain why Clough is expected to have a crystal ball and be able to predict drops in form and injury problems when none of the experts on here are able to do so ?


To be fair Dave we did predict what would happen, if you look back through the posts just before the deadline past many of us were saying the squad was too small and we desperately needed 2 centre backs and a striker. Had we signed those players and they had been better than some of the duffs Clough has signed, then I think we would be much higher in the league. Instead of signing a centre back we signed Hartigan, now what would you sooner have right now? It's absolutely not hindsight, this is what we were warning months ago and sadly what many of us predicted has happened. Our squad is too old, too slow, too small, imbalanced and lacking cover in key areas - in short it is not a squad representative of the budget the manager has been given. Our first eleven is very, very good, but you will never, ever be able to field your first eleven for 46 games so the squad composition is vital and it is abundantly clear Clough and his team have this wrong. Our very best players remain those here before Clough and co came to the club, which in itself is disappointing. Our performance last night 2nd half and at Harrogate was every bit as bad as anything under Coughlan and Dempster and after a great few months last season I do not think we have progressed.

I'm not one for sacking managers but for me Clough has January to sort this mess out, if he doesn't there is no way on earth would I be offering him a new deal in the summer and would be looking for a younger more ambitious manager, one prepared to blood younger players and one who knew that a right back is best played at right back etc, etc.


Agreed. Two years on and we're not where we should be.


Writings on the wall for Clough ... i truly believe that the players have lost faith in him , other than his old amigo's :roll:
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Re: Next Season

Postby broomo » Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:51 am

Next time I get stick and people respond by saying no-one wants him sacked I'll remind folk of this thread (and no doubt I'll take more stick).

There are clearly posters who want him fired. One point off the playoffs and more than enough games to push top 3.

Madness.
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Re: Next Season

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:36 pm

broomo wrote:Next time I get stick and people respond by saying no-one wants him sacked I'll remind folk of this thread (and no doubt I'll take more stick).

There are clearly posters who want him fired. One point off the playoffs and more than enough games to push top 3.

Madness.


Broomo

As you know things can change very quickly in football. As you correctly say there were plenty saying that they don’t want Clough sacked but some poor performances, team selections and substitutions have occurred since then. Add the fact that he has again stated that we don’t need any new defenders in January and you can see how frustrations have bubbled to the surface.

I personally think he should be given the chance to recruit in January by which time I expect us to be several points behind the playoffs. Although he has said we don’t need defenders, I would be really surprised if he truly believes that. I wouldn’t expect him to play his hand now and just put fees/wages up so it’s a case of wait and see.

You only have to read back to August to see how many were agreeing with him and laughing at us doubters to see how opinions easily change. Go further back to last September/October and you will see those same posters wanted him gone then before he was raised to become a semi-god by April.

This is stagsnet and opinion changes with the wind. You just need to take it with a pinch of salt.
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Re: Next Season

Postby PEAR CIDER » Fri Dec 02, 2022 1:01 pm

For me... asbolutely dont want him sacked. We need a bit of longevity and stability in management. Its been too much of a merry go round and Clough is the right man

However....

Its clear we are having a bad patch that with an ageing squad / square pegs approach I cannot see us getting out of that. We need a CH & Forward player meaning we dont have to rely so heavily on otoole / perch and Akins
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Re: Next Season

Postby CassellsCap » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:02 pm

There were 4,000 of us at Sheffield and the football we played against a very high profile expensive team was a joy to see. We were the better side for long periods of that game and even the home fans agree with that... We are lucky to have Nigel Clough . Mansfield Town is a stable club and stability brings success.
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