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Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Captain Cunno » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:58 pm

Prove it.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:11 pm

Hope you’ve watched the highlights posted by Martin and taken particular note of Gordon’s positioning and contribution to the team’s defensive efforts. I think you will find the criticism is generally justified but some won’t admit it. And this is only on a few minutes of highlights, there were far worse examples throughout the match.

Of course he has skills but is not good enough to play IN THAT POSITION AND ROLE in a side serious about promotion. Remember other teams will watch our players week in week out and exploit any weaknesses they see. Good enough for a backup but not first choice.

And just so you are aware, no-one is trying to turn him into a boo boy just analysing the team’s strengths and weaknesses as we see them, after all that’s what a fans discussion board is for.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:22 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:Does make me wonder how many of the self professed experts on here have actually played the game ?? Quite a few I presume where last pick at there represented school a few years back for some granted . Surely the 5 or 6 top posters on this message board must have played professionally at some point ?? Ermm

I’m not sure of your logic. Are you saying that you can only have an opinion if you’ve played. How does that work with people like Mourinho?

Seems that everyone has a political opinion but no one on here has been an MP so how does that work ?

PS I played to a decent level and I’ve got a goal against a league team in my locker but that’s irrelevant.


Quite the opposite Bell boy my point is everyone is entitled to an opinion even you , but a few folk on here have nothing better to do and think they can ride roughshod over posters with differing opinions to their own .
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby pemill » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:41 pm

NC and his staff will work it out and I'm sure will coach every player to do the job he wants them to do.

If he thinks KG needs to defend more, take up a different position on the field or spots he is contributing negatively to the teams performance I'm sure he will discuss the matter with him - that's what really matters.

The rest are just opinions of us fans.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:44 pm

pemill wrote:NC and his staff will work it out and I'm sure will coach every player to do the job he wants them to do.

If he thinks KG needs to defend more, take up a different position on the field or spots he is contributing negatively to the teams performance I'm sure he will discuss the matter with him - that's what really matters.

The rest are just opinions of us fans.


Agreed and we should be free to express them on a fans discussion board.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby yorkshire stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:46 pm

the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:13 pm

gazza1988 wrote:Right, kellan has not played "all his career" at right back.

there's his signing interview, for us, skip to 14 seconds and it pops up with his name with "right wing back/right midfielder"

Skip to 1minute and stevo asks him where he sees himself playing. Guess what he says! As a winger.

Looks like it's not just a grumpy stags fan but kellan himself. On this page https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kellan- ... ler/370138 it lists where he's played (it's not perfect there are games with missing positions and it's unclear what they count right wing back as)

I made my concerns clear last season during our good run. If we had an injury crisis in defence then by all means I'd have Kellan in there. The issue Kellan has is Clough doesn't play with wingers Clough's teams are narrow. The width is provided by the attacking full backs. This is all well and good when attacking both him and McLaughlin (is it "lin" or "lan" at the end of his name?) are in their element but a sustained period of pressure where they are forced to stay back is when we are more likely to make an error. McLaughlan (hedging my bets on that:D) is less prone because of his experience, he's played left midfield and central midfield before so he's gained defensive experience.

I hope Clough has got Kellan working on the defensive side of his game if he is going to be first choice.

In Clough's formation I reckon Gordon could do a more effective job with on the right of the narrow diamond or at the top of it behind the forwards. If he prefers the 4-3-3 with inside forwards then right of the front 3. If he's to play right back then he'd fare better in the narrow diamond than 4-3-3 because he'd have support from the player on the right of the diamond whereas he'd have no support from the forward playing on the right of a 4-3-3.

Thats my take anyway. Not saying I'm a tactical mastermind or Clough is wrong or anything just my opinion.


Played as a RB/RWB throughout Derbys YT, on loan at Lincoln, Swindon and at stags... Even made his debut replacing the legend Mason Bennet who was on the wing as Derby changed formation and Kellan played at, you guessed it, right back... regardless of what he's said in an interview its not a unnatural position for him and folk saying we don't have a proper right back are talking absolute nonsense. Hes more than good enough.

I like him and think his pace is an asset, but I do like our side with Perch in it and think he looked more than good enough at RB also
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:29 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf


Yeah most teams do Dave, Hull did on Saturday :lol:

Most chances for both teams came from out wide, just look at the highlights and you'll see many of Hull's chances came down our left, yet Quinn was clearly our best player. It's down to how a team sets up just as much as down to individual players.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm

So kellan is talking nonsense then. He's never played right wing in his life?

Why would kellan say he's a winger then?

Why does he look like he's hardly played at right back in his career?

Are you aware that RB and RWB aren't the same? Right backs have alot of defending to do. Right wing backs have a moderate amount (as I said above the covering defender in a back 3 covers for wingbacks that attack. A right midfielder is pretty much a 50/50 split between attacking and defending (looks for the overlap of an attacking fullback, the right midfielder covers rather than the centre back) and a winger is mostly attacking. That's basics though there are tweaks to make them more or less attacking but that's the general jist of it.

Like I said above I'd be perfectly fine if he had a player like Quinn on his side who can cover, I'd be perfectly fine with it of we played a back 3 and he was a right wing back to reduce his defensive duties. He's kit he's played as an attacking full back that when pressed into his own half causes issues for us. He ends up floating inside where he's basically a centre back or just getting skinned or sometimes actually getting a block in.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby yorkshire stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:48 pm

Rob wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf


Yeah most teams do Dave, Hull did on Saturday :lol:

Most chances for both teams came from out wide, just look at the highlights and you'll see many of Hull's chances came down our left, yet Quinn was clearly our best player. It's down to how a team sets up just as much as down to individual players.


the manager will know what he wants, i expected both LB & RB to be replaced tbh Rob, i like him attacking however he does get beat a fair few times, in general it’s the back four that concern me the most, we need at the very least another CB
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Captain Cunno » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:50 pm

Why was the RB gonna be replaced after NC gave him a new contract recently ?
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:54 pm

Rob wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf


Yeah most teams do Dave, Hull did on Saturday :lol:

Most chances for both teams came from out wide, just look at the highlights and you'll see many of Hull's chances came down our left, yet Quinn was clearly our best player. It's down to how a team sets up just as much as down to individual players.



Total Hull chances in the highlights = 10

Chances from the left = 3 (including one when Kellan had been substituted)

Chances down the middle = 1

Chances from the right= 6 (including the goal)

You do know your left from your right don’t you? Or is it your maths which don’t add up (see what I did there :D )

So 60% of all chances conceded came down our right side, 30% from our left and 10% down the middle and that was despite Hull clearly targeting our left flank. The evidence is there for you to see.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:57 pm

Captain Cunno wrote:Prove it.

Me? Clearly I can’t but I was given the job of hosting both York and Scarborough when they came to 8 Signal Regiment in Catterick before the start of the 1990-91 season. Got on really well with the York lot, with John Bird as manager and Barry Swallow (originally from Shirebrook I think) as a director. Then we had Scarborough with Ray McHale as manager. Maybe it was that he was an ex Spireite but the vibe wasn’t the same. Anyway, we had a single half game against them on the Friday. They scored 6 I think but I got one for us and the added bonus was that it was through Chris Marples. He was also ex Spireite and Derbyshire wicketkeeper.

Believe it or don’t. That bit isn’t really relevant.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Captain Cunno » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:00 pm

You ought to go on Would I lie to you Belly. You'd be ace. :lol:
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:36 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf


Yeah most teams do Dave, Hull did on Saturday :lol:

Most chances for both teams came from out wide, just look at the highlights and you'll see many of Hull's chances came down our left, yet Quinn was clearly our best player. It's down to how a team sets up just as much as down to individual players.



Total Hull chances in the highlights = 10

Chances from the left = 3 (including one when Kellan had been substituted)

Chances down the middle = 1

Chances from the right= 6 (including the goal)

You do know your left from your right don’t you? Or is it your maths which don’t add up (see what I did there :D )

So 60% of all chances conceded came down our right side, 30% from our left and 10% down the middle and that was despite Hull clearly targeting our left flank. The evidence is there for you to see.


You do understand the word "many", if you like I'll post you the definition and you can see how it differs to "most" :lol:
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:14 pm

Rob wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Rob wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:the Hull commentator mentioned we concede from the flanks tbf


Yeah most teams do Dave, Hull did on Saturday :lol:

Most chances for both teams came from out wide, just look at the highlights and you'll see many of Hull's chances came down our left, yet Quinn was clearly our best player. It's down to how a team sets up just as much as down to individual players.



Total Hull chances in the highlights = 10

Chances from the left = 3 (including one when Kellan had been substituted)

Chances down the middle = 1

Chances from the right= 6 (including the goal)

You do know your left from your right don’t you? Or is it your maths which don’t add up (see what I did there :D )

So 60% of all chances conceded came down our right side, 30% from our left and 10% down the middle and that was despite Hull clearly targeting our left flank. The evidence is there for you to see.


You do understand the word "many", if you like I'll post you the definition and you can see how it differs to "most" :lol:


If you call 3 many in that context I bet you don’t buy ‘many’ drinks. You attempted to indicate there were more from the left than the right when I have demonstrated there clearly weren’t.

And please point out where I’ve accused you of saying ‘most’ anyway. I haven’t but don’t let that stop you telling me what I’ve said and meant - again.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby lifestags » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:15 pm

It seems Clough is set on his strikeforce for next season, Hawkins and Johnson, he hasn’t yet tried anyone else upfront. I’m happy with that but I must admit I would like to see Oates up top, I love how positive he is on the ball, didn’t expect him to play in Lapslie’s place though. Lapslie was so good in that role last season.


Another note is how good Shelvey is, wouldn’t mind him starting the season at all.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby m1cksut » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:25 pm

back to the match, it was nice to see so many happy to shoot from distance, confidence must be pretty high for that to happen.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby chip63 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:40 pm

m1cksut wrote:back to the match, it was nice to see so many happy to shoot from distance, confidence must be pretty high for that to happen.


Only watched the highlights but from that I noticed how happy, relaxed and confident players looked.
Johnson especially looked liked he was really enjoying the game and didn't beat himself up over the 1 on 1, it was an excellent save as well.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:11 pm

Captain Cunno wrote:Prove it.


"Tis a fact. Confidential"

Apologies. Just an excuse to get a reference in to Television and the glorious twin guitars of Tom Verlaine and Richard Lloyd. It's a bit more difficult to cross reference Marquee Moon. :lol:
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby yorkshire stag » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:13 pm

Captain Cunno wrote:Why was the RB gonna be replaced after NC gave him a new contract recently ?


“I” expected him to change them both, neither are defenders, all teams will know that!

i’m still hoping for another defender to come in though.

did that kid from Hamilton leave in the end who Dan spotted him scouting ?
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Vice President » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:17 pm

m1cksut wrote:back to the match, it was nice to see so many happy to shoot from distance, confidence must be pretty high for that to happen.


This is a big positive, as I felt that we were a bit 'shot-shy' last season. I hope this shooting more from distance is going to be the pattern for the whole season - especially as goal keepers today tend to parry rather than catch shots.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:32 pm

Vice President wrote:
m1cksut wrote:back to the match, it was nice to see so many happy to shoot from distance, confidence must be pretty high for that to happen.


This is a big positive, as I felt that we were a bit 'shot-shy' last season. I hope this shooting more from distance is going to be the pattern for the whole season - especially as goal keepers today tend to parry rather than catch shots.


We had the second most shots in League Two last season :lol:

We definitely were not shot shy!
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:51 pm

Finally got round to watching the game. Really enjoyed it, great to watch and so many fine performances it’s difficult to single out any particular play.

The stern criticism of Gordon from yesterday’s seem a bit harsh in my opinion. He didn’t have the best of games but I was expecting to see a ‘disasterclass’ after some of the comments on here. I didn’t see any massive positional errors. Maybe over covering on occasions but keep in mind he was playing alongside Rawson who had played near enough a full game the day before and is not the quickest anyway, and then a striker, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Clough asked KG to be wary of that.

SPBS you have mentioned that six of the attacks came down the right hand side from the highlights, which is true, but it’s too simplistic to say because they came down his side they were his fault. Out of the six

1. Gordon beaten by a tricky winger touted for the Premier League. Could do better but hardly surprising.
2. No fault on KG here, he has his man but Clarke let’s his man run off the back of him. Gordon is out watching the winger as you’d want him to be.
3. No fault on KG, player lining up a shot from range, Gordon has to stay because he has a man on outside, a midfielder should block and does.
4. No fault on KG. There’s a big gap on the right but that’s because Lewis-Potter has drifted in and Gordon has followed him as you would want. Our narrow midfield means this will happen often against attacking full backs, midfielders have to be aware.
5. The goal. Again, KG’s man has drifted inside and he is with him. Oates can’t close down the full back quick enough.
6. Error by Gordon as his pass in intercepted which would have led to a goal as the bounce fell kindly for Hull. Could just have easily rebounded to a Stags player.
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Re: Hull scorefred - now we are on a roll.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:31 am

MTFCMusings wrote:Finally got round to watching the game. Really enjoyed it, great to watch and so many fine performances it’s difficult to single out any particular play.

The stern criticism of Gordon from yesterday’s seem a bit harsh in my opinion. He didn’t have the best of games but I was expecting to see a ‘disasterclass’ after some of the comments on here. I didn’t see any massive positional errors. Maybe over covering on occasions but keep in mind he was playing alongside Rawson who had played near enough a full game the day before and is not the quickest anyway, and then a striker, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Clough asked KG to be wary of that.

SPBS you have mentioned that six of the attacks came down the right hand side from the highlights, which is true, but it’s too simplistic to say because they came down his side they were his fault. Out of the six

1. Gordon beaten by a tricky winger touted for the Premier League. Could do better but hardly surprising.
2. No fault on KG here, he has his man but Clarke let’s his man run off the back of him. Gordon is out watching the winger as you’d want him to be.
3. No fault on KG, player lining up a shot from range, Gordon has to stay because he has a man on outside, a midfielder should block and does.
4. No fault on KG. There’s a big gap on the right but that’s because Lewis-Potter has drifted in and Gordon has followed him as you would want. Our narrow midfield means this will happen often against attacking full backs, midfielders have to be aware.
5. The goal. Again, KG’s man has drifted inside and he is with him. Oates can’t close down the full back quick enough.
6. Error by Gordon as his pass in intercepted which would have led to a goal as the bounce fell kindly for Hull. Could just have easily rebounded to a Stags player.


Musings, for the sake of board sanity I’m not going to go into great detail in reply to this other than to say I disagree with your simplistic analysis. Look at the cross from the left when Kellan is the wrong side of his man. Look at the 2nd ( I think from memory without checking) example when he’s stood aimlessly and static 5 yards from anyone. There were numerous times during the match when he was at least 20 yards from his man with acres of space behind him for the opposition to exploit if they put the correct ball in. This probably wasn’t picked up by what I presume is a single camera. I could go on but it’s pointless.

I, together with others, made the comment that our only reservation about the team (which is to be expected as we speculate pre season) was the suitability of Kellan Gordon in the right back role, a concern we also had last season. We did not seek to vilify the player or turn him into this season’s boo boy. This was seized on by Rob who disagrees with everything I post on here and seeks to belittle my comments at every opportunity. I admit I retaliate and have sought to justify my comments. The discussion has blown up out of all proportion from the original comment until people think I am totally anti-Kellan. I stick to my opinion that he is not sufficiently proficient at full back for a side seeking promotion and we will only know if that is correct as the season progresses.

All I would ask is that fans actually watch him for a full game and take particular notice of where he stands, how close he gets to his man and what he does when he loses the ball. Each poster can then make their own mind up.
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