Starting Xl first game.

[Ralphy]

If NC goes with a 433 then he will need a pacey wide man

[BH_Stag]

I wish we would refresh the attack with one more signing. I know we scored plenty of goals last season but I don’t think it would do any harm.

Completely agree. Whilst I think Swan could kick on I’m a bit conscious of us ‘standing still’ in that area and you should always be looking to improve on what you’ve got, regardless of previous campaigns.

I think a forward that is genuinely comfortable on the right of a front 3 or up top would benefit us greatly. Been said many times over on here but having a striker like Swan or Oates playing that role on the right doesn’t make much sense to me.

It seems unlikely at the minute listening to Clough but hoping a deal pops up that tempts us enough.

[robda1st]

oates is nowhere near the player swan his.

he had a half decent few months in the second half of 2021/22 whereas swan started ok then improved massively.

keeping in mind we pad a fee for him its got to be swan dkd plus akins/another if we were playing 4 3 3 or dkd dropping to AM if we play the diamond.

[lifestags]

So swans stats last year, scored 4 when started 6 when off the bench? For me he is twice the player when he comes off the bench, when he starts games he tends to go missing a bit, I think he will learn and become a starter, be interesting to see how he gets on in pre season.

[BH_Stag]

oates is nowhere near the player swan his.

he had a half decent few months in the second half of 2021/22 whereas swan started ok then improved massively.

keeping in mind we pad a fee for him its got to be swan dkd plus akins/another if we were playing 4 3 3 or dkd dropping to AM if we play the diamond.

Just had a look at Oates record in league 2;
- 15/16 = 38 appearances, 2 goals
- 16/17 = 25 appearances, 3 goals
- 18/19 = 31 appearances, 6 goals
- 19/20 = 5 appearances, 0 goals
- 21/22 = 38 appearances, 9 goals
- 22/23 = 24 appearances, 4 goals

Total = 161 appearances, 24 goals. A goal every 6.7 appearances. MPG 1 every 415 minutes, so 4 and a half games per goal. He’s been moved all over the front line in those appearances to be fair to him and hasn’t always been an out and out striker.

I think he’s a useful player and in certain games, against certain opposition he provides a serious threat as he unsettles teams, but he isn’t a sure fire source of goals. A front 2 of Akins & Oates is a handful no doubt, but I’d have reservations about whether they’d score enough. We scored goals from all over last season which is a positive thing though and hopefully that continues.

[MTFCMusings]

So swans stats last year, scored 4 when started 6 when off the bench? For me he is twice the player when he comes off the bench, when he starts games he tends to go missing a bit, I think he will learn and become a starter, be interesting to see how he gets on in pre season.

But still better than Oates’ record.

[lifestags]

So swans stats last year, scored 4 when started 6 when off the bench? For me he is twice the player when he comes off the bench, when he starts games he tends to go missing a bit, I think he will learn and become a starter, be interesting to see how he gets on in pre season.

But still better than Oates’ record.

My point is that I’m not sure Swan is ready to start games yet rather then the argument for Oates to start, what was the stats of games won when Swan started last season? I know part time Pete used to post about it.

[MTFCMusings]

So swans stats last year, scored 4 when started 6 when off the bench? For me he is twice the player when he comes off the bench, when he starts games he tends to go missing a bit, I think he will learn and become a starter, be interesting to see how he gets on in pre season.

But still better than Oates’ record.

My point is that I’m not sure Swan is ready to start games yet rather then the argument for Oates to start, what was the stats of games won when Swan started last season? I know part time Pete used to post about it.

Not very good, but that’s not on him.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

The truth is that none of us know how Nigel is going to set up next season so all of this is guesswork. I feel early indications are that he will go with four at the back but forward of that is anyone’s guess.

I feel that we already have a variety of forwards with enough to give us plenty of formation options. Competition for a starting place will be pretty fierce and the players concerned know they will have to be on form to obtain one.

In the circumstances I would be happy to go with what we already have and spend the extra budget on another centre half. If things aren’t working by January, we could look to strengthen at that point although I accept choices would be more limited.

[Marky Mark]

I'd imagine the presence of both Reed and Hartigan in the squad, combined with Clough now having a first choice central defending partnership that he can trust to be out and out defenders, means that he can be confident enough to play 4 at the back with either Reed or Hartigan being the deep midfielder. There seems little point having invested in Reed and Hartigan if he's going to stick both of them on the bench and play a back 5. Wouldn't be surprised if it's something like a 4-1-3-1-1 like:

GK
Johnson Kilgour Cargill Macca (either)
Reed
Clarke Maris Quinn
DKD
Akins

Either way I think it'll be a 4 at the back with a deep midfielder and the other 5 being flexible in formation throughout the game.

[Cleveland_Stag]

Got to be the diamond formation for me. It’s what we’re best in. We don’t have proper wide players to play a 4-3-3 so it shouldn’t be in the conversation. Swan has to start. He’s our biggest goal scoring threat and provides pace in the channels. He's simply a better player than Oates and he's a perfect strike partner for Akins. I’d tether DKD into the central role behind the two strikers too. He was more effective centrally last season and his creativity suits this role so well. I’d back him to score 15 goals from this position, give or take.

If I was picking the 11 based on what we’ve currently got in:

Keeper

Johnson Kilgour Cargill Macca/McD

Maris

Clarke Boateng

DKD

Swan Akins

As well as signing a keeper and a couple of defenders, I’d also like to see us sign one more forward option, even though Clough said he’s happy with what he’s got there at the moment.

[part time pete]

I believe Nigel Clough buys players who can play in a number of positions and perform well in either position and not just one trick ponies.

He knows which are his best 10 outfield players if they are all match fit. Any of these ten who are not match fit then he promotes his 11th best player who ever that is.

He then plays a formation that he can fit in these 10 best available outfield players.

This formation could be anything
5-3-2
4-3-3
4-1-2-1-2
3-4-1-2
3-3-3-1
Or whatever.

[part time pete]

Got to be the diamond formation for me. It’s what we’re best in. We don’t have proper wide players to play a 4-3-3 so it shouldn’t be in the conversation. Swan has to start. He’s our biggest goal scoring threat and provides pace in the channels. He's simply a better player than Oates and he's a perfect strike partner for Akins. I’d tether DKD into the central role behind the two strikers too. He was more effective centrally last season and his creativity suits this role so well. I’d back him to score 15 goals from this position, give or take.

If I was picking the 11 based on what we’ve currently got in:

Keeper

Johnson Kilgour Cargill Macca/McD

Maris

Clarke Boateng

DKD

Swan Akins

As well as signing a keeper and a couple of defenders, I’d also like to see us sign one more forward option, even though Clough said he’s happy with what he’s got there at the moment.

Surely we have already that forward, Jordan Bowery.

[Birminghamstag10]

I know NC said he's happy with the forward options and he also said he doesn't expect many loans, but I think he will add in another forward loan option to the mix, rather than a forward perm signing.

[Chrisuknottm]

I know NC said he's happy with the forward options and he also said he doesn't expect many loans, but I think he will add in another forward loan option to the mix, rather than a forward perm signing.

I might be out on my own but I still feel we need an out and out 20 goal a year target man for Swan and Oates to run and play off. You simply can't rely on goals being spread throughout the team and too often defenders at Field Mill last season had nothing to worry about in the initial stages of attacks

[Cleveland_Stag]

I know NC said he's happy with the forward options and he also said he doesn't expect many loans, but I think he will add in another forward loan option to the mix, rather than a forward perm signing.

Yep, using one of the loan slots for an extra forward option might be a good idea. I personally wouldn’t play the 4-3-3, but if Clough for some reason does want to use that formation at least sometimes, then it would be wise to bring in someone who’s comfortable playing in a wide forward position. Oates and Swan never look comfortable out wide.

[scotsstag]

I believe Nigel Clough buys players who can play in a number of positions and perform well in either position and not just one trick ponies.

He knows which are his best 10 outfield players if they are all match fit. Any of these ten who are not match fit then he promotes his 11th best player who ever that is.

He then plays a formation that he can fit in these 10 best available outfield players.

This formation could be anything
5-3-2
4-3-3
4-1-2-1-2
3-4-1-2
3-3-3-1
Or whatever.

So what’s a “one trick pony” ?
A striker that does his job and scores goals but is a poor defender, or a great defender that doesn’t score very often ?

If it’s either of the above then I’d sooner have them in the team than players who are acceptable/mediocre in a number of positions...

[Rob]

I'd imagine the presence of both Reed and Hartigan in the squad, combined with Clough now having a first choice central defending partnership that he can trust to be out and out defenders, means that he can be confident enough to play 4 at the back with either Reed or Hartigan being the deep midfielder. There seems little point having invested in Reed and Hartigan if he's going to stick both of them on the bench and play a back 5. Wouldn't be surprised if it's something like a 4-1-3-1-1 like:

GK
Johnson Kilgour Cargill Macca (either)
Reed
Clarke Maris Quinn
DKD
Akins

Either way I think it'll be a 4 at the back with a deep midfielder and the other 5 being flexible in formation throughout the game.

Yes I think so too, though I think in your team Swan will start and it will be a choice between Quinn and DKD as Akins will play just behind Swan. I don't understand some not picking Maris as when fit he is clearly our best player, he's the first name in midfield for me every time and if push came to shove I'd put him in ahead of Reed, though I do think Reed will do a good job holding and we'd be better with Maris in a more central role - this means either Quinn, Clarke or DKD miss out - in reality they won't all be fit every game anyway. We're certainly starting to look much stronger at the back though we do actually still only have two specialist centre backs which clearly is not enough.

[Cleveland_Stag]

I believe Nigel Clough buys players who can play in a number of positions and perform well in either position and not just one trick ponies.

He knows which are his best 10 outfield players if they are all match fit. Any of these ten who are not match fit then he promotes his 11th best player who ever that is.

He then plays a formation that he can fit in these 10 best available outfield players.

This formation could be anything
5-3-2
4-3-3
4-1-2-1-2
3-4-1-2
3-3-3-1
Or whatever.

Whether that’s true or not about how Clough thinks… no team should be chopping and changing formations constantly every time there’s a new injury. The best teams in football play the same system for the majority of the season and have full faith in it working. Can’t think of one example of a good team having a successful season while interchanging between three of four different formations over the course of a campaign. It would help the players I think if Clough stuck to one formation for as much as reasonably possible.

[BH_Stag]

I believe Nigel Clough buys players who can play in a number of positions and perform well in either position and not just one trick ponies.

He knows which are his best 10 outfield players if they are all match fit. Any of these ten who are not match fit then he promotes his 11th best player who ever that is.

He then plays a formation that he can fit in these 10 best available outfield players.

This formation could be anything
5-3-2
4-3-3
4-1-2-1-2
3-4-1-2
3-3-3-1
Or whatever.

This can only get you so far. We don’t want to be in a position where we are having to change formation every other week because of one absentee and the ‘next best player’ doesn’t fit in to the preferred system. That doesn’t give the team a chance to settle in to a rhythm.

Last season we changed formation constantly and at times it was 2 or 3 times a game. I know some of that a necessity due to injuries, but some of it wasn’t. I guarantee the promoted sides didn’t chop and change system nearly as much as we did.

First and foremost, let’s find a system we want to play, and build a squad with adequate cover for each position that can fill in seamlessly when required. The flexibility of these players will still play it’s part when managing different in-game situations or if you have a bad spate of injuries but it should be there to lean back on, not as a first port of call in my opinion.

[AshoverStag]

Scoring was not a problem last season. It was a leaky defence.

Injuries to our battling midfielders cost us dearly too. Clarke/Maris/Reed/Hartigan.

There are too many variables to suggest a formation or team selection yet. NC will assess I presume through pre season who impresses, and what formation looks to work best

For me it’s always going to be trial and error. But we had a good pre season last year and lost to Salford opening day. This year NC has a LOT better chance pre season. It’s not rushed, he has brought in early. (Showing his intent)

I personally don’t like Oates out wide. He can’t control the ball. So as long as that don’t happen I’ll be fairly happy

Midfield looks superb. NC has hinted a lot in interviews he wants Wallace/Law to play football. I don’t think they are in his plans

I hope he brings in a RB who can attack. I’m slightly worried about Johnson from what I saw. Hewitt offered so much going forward.

Just a feeling but I would not be surprised if Callum MacDonald really impresses both defending and going forwards and Macca struggles to get back in the team

My early thoughts are if Kilgour and Cargill stay fit we maybe off to a flyer and a good early run

For the fun of it, if I was going to suggest a first day team it would be

Bishop (if we could get him)

CJ. Kilgour. Cargill. C Macca

Reed

Maris. Clark

DKD

Swan. Akins

(The just missing out key Subs - Brought on Boateng, Hartigan, Quinn when required)

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Just had a look at Oates record in league 2;
- 15/16 = 38 appearances, 2 goals
- 16/17 = 25 appearances, 3 goals
- 18/19 = 31 appearances, 6 goals
- 19/20 = 5 appearances, 0 goals
- 21/22 = 38 appearances, 9 goals
- 22/23 = 24 appearances, 4 goals

Total = 161 appearances, 24 goals. A goal every 6.7 appearances. MPG 1 every 415 minutes, so 4 and a half games per goal. He’s been moved all over the front line in those appearances to be fair to him and hasn’t always been an out and out striker.

I think he’s a useful player and in certain games, against certain opposition he provides a serious threat as he unsettles teams, but he isn’t a sure fire source of goals. A front 2 of Akins & Oates is a handful no doubt, but I’d have reservations about whether they’d score enough. We scored goals from all over last season which is a positive thing though and hopefully that continues.

BH Stag - Your stats do not include sub appearances

I posted this previously about Rhys Oates which includes his league starts and sub appearances

Rhys Oates
Rhys Oates was an academy player at Barnsley. He had more League 2 experience with Hartlepool United and Morecambe than National League experience with Hartlepool and Gateshead. He had 62(46) EFL apps and had scored 11 goals before joining the Stags. He had 54(25) league apps and 23 goals in the National League. He's also not always been played as the main striker.

He was at Barnsley at the same time as Danny Rose, George Maris, Paul Digby, Jacob Mellis, Kane Hemmings, Bobby Hassell, Liam Lawrence and Stephen Dawson,

2014-2015 Barnsley (League 1) 0(9) league apps
2015-2016 Hartlepool United (League 2) 21(17) league apps and 2 goals
2016-2017 Hartlepool United (League 2) 17(8) league apps and 3 goals
Gateshead (National League) 2(4) league apps and 1 goal
2017-2018 Hartlepool United (National League) 25(11) league apps and 7 goals
2018-2019 Morecambe (League 2) 22(9) league apps and 6 goals
2019-2020 Morecambe (League 2) 2(3) league apps
2020-2021 Hartlepool United (National League) 27(10) league apps and 15 goals
2021-2022 Mansfield Town (League 2) 34(4) league apps and 9 goals
2022-2023 Mansfield Town (League 2) 18(6) league apps and 4 goals

[BH_Stag]

Just had a look at Oates record in league 2;
- 15/16 = 38 appearances, 2 goals
- 16/17 = 25 appearances, 3 goals
- 18/19 = 31 appearances, 6 goals
- 19/20 = 5 appearances, 0 goals
- 21/22 = 38 appearances, 9 goals
- 22/23 = 24 appearances, 4 goals

Total = 161 appearances, 24 goals. A goal every 6.7 appearances. MPG 1 every 415 minutes, so 4 and a half games per goal. He’s been moved all over the front line in those appearances to be fair to him and hasn’t always been an out and out striker.

I think he’s a useful player and in certain games, against certain opposition he provides a serious threat as he unsettles teams, but he isn’t a sure fire source of goals. A front 2 of Akins & Oates is a handful no doubt, but I’d have reservations about whether they’d score enough. We scored goals from all over last season which is a positive thing though and hopefully that continues.

BH Stag - Your stats do not include sub appearances

I posted this previously about Rhys Oates which includes his league starts and sub appearances

Rhys Oates
Rhys Oates was an academy player at Barnsley. He had more League 2 experience with Hartlepool United and Morecambe than National League experience with Hartlepool and Gateshead. He had 62(46) EFL apps and had scored 11 goals before joining the Stags. He had 54(25) league apps and 23 goals in the National League. He's also not always been played as the main striker.

He was at Barnsley at the same time as Danny Rose, George Maris, Paul Digby, Jacob Mellis, Kane Hemmings, Bobby Hassell, Liam Lawrence and Stephen Dawson,

2014-2015 Barnsley (League 1) 0(9) league apps
2015-2016 Hartlepool United (League 2) 21(17) league apps and 2 goals
2016-2017 Hartlepool United (League 2) 17(8) league apps and 3 goals
Gateshead (National League) 2(4) league apps and 1 goal
2017-2018 Hartlepool United (National League) 25(11) league apps and 7 goals
2018-2019 Morecambe (League 2) 22(9) league apps and 6 goals
2019-2020 Morecambe (League 2) 2(3) league apps
2020-2021 Hartlepool United (National League) 27(10) league apps and 15 goals
2021-2022 Mansfield Town (League 2) 34(4) league apps and 9 goals
2022-2023 Mansfield Town (League 2) 18(6) league apps and 4 goals

They do include his sub appearances (we’ve got the same totals!), they’re just not highlighted separately. The fairest reflection though is his MPG ratio, which is mentioned.

[hucknallstag]

Imo.....the elusive centre forward is already at the club in the form of gale! Young,pacey and fi ding his feet with some very neat finishes towards the end of the season,would be the spearhead for me next season and given a good run in the side will earn mtfc a good fee when he's sold,the saying goes.....if your good enough.....your old enough?

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Imo.....the elusive centre forward is already at the club in the form of gale! Young,pacey and fi ding his feet with some very neat finishes towards the end of the season,would be the spearhead for me next season and given a good run in the side will earn mtfc a good fee when he's sold,the saying goes.....if your good enough.....your old enough?

I agree with this.

For me one of the main extras he brings compared to others is his accuracy and ability to strike at goal. We haven’t had anyone with the ability to effectively strike on sight for quite a number of years but young James has shown he can hit the target with power even from half a chance. There’s nothing more exciting in a footballer than that and it’s been something missing from the squad for far too long.