{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby stagmanrob » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:11 pm

Who is the fan representative on the SAG?
User avatar
stagmanrob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2039
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:39 pm
Location: Newbold

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sneag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:21 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Who is the fan representative on the SAG?



Vidkun Quisling
MANSFIELD TOWN FC - SPOILING YOUR WEEKENDS SINCE 1910.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6617
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Evidently Chickentown

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:18 pm

So one of the reasons we had the North Stand taken off us, was to stop away fans coming from the station and crossing over with home fans coming from the south of town.

Isn't this what the gate has caused?

The only way is to keep the away fans in the ground until the home fans have dispersed.

As said above the alcohol problem is a red herring because the pubs just open earlier or those inclined have a skin full at home prior to the game
Amber Andy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:38 am

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Why is this such an emotive issue?
You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
User avatar
arsene wengers coat
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2654
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sheffieldstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:27 pm

The footpath still is a right of way as a footpath. You can check this online along with any rights of way. Just type rights of way into Google and you should find a page with a search on an OS Map.
User avatar
Sheffieldstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 846
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:18 am

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Foresttownstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:34 pm

Amber Andy wrote:The solution is.

1 Give us the North Stand back.

2 Keep the away fans in the ground for 30 mins after the match finishes ( as we were at the Prozac )

3 Keep kick off times to 3pm ( 7:45 for mid week games ).


Common sense Andy, they won’t do that!
User avatar
Foresttownstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2692
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:47 am
Location: Forest Town

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby spanishstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:44 pm

The solution is arrest the raspberries who cause problems ,simple
spanishstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:45 pm

I've just checked using the above method and the search engine does show the footpath crossing the gate and going through the car park.

Before I took this as gospel, I would like to check it with the NCC rights of way officer as the exact route is documented and plotted officially.

This is not the route of the old footpath but as I stated earlier, it could have been diverted with the commercial development.

It is the duty of the right of way officer to enforce this legislation and he is the person any complaints should be directed towards.

If the route is correct then it should be enforced. Failure to enforce can be dealt with through NCC complaint procedures. Remember though who runs the safety group and if the gate cannot be locked, other means of segregation (including capacity reduction) may be introduced.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
Sandy Pate Best Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:37 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby spanishstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:47 pm

What a load off crap ,will you take responsibility if just one person gets injured in a punch up ,no
spanishstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sneag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:06 pm

The points is me ode spaniel is that all shutting the gate does is move the flashpoint from the gate area to the Notts road area.

The real problem is away fans being housed in the North Stand. But Notts plod/SAG will never admit that.
MANSFIELD TOWN FC - SPOILING YOUR WEEKENDS SINCE 1910.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6617
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Evidently Chickentown

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby spanishstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:25 pm

As i remember stags fans moved into the west stand ,long before it was given over to away fans i remember going into the west stand terrace years ago mainly to goad the away fans in the quarry lane end
spanishstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:32 pm

spanishstag wrote:As i remember stags fans moved into the west stand ,long before it was given over to away fans i remember going into the west stand terrace years ago mainly to goad the away fans in the quarry lane end
The North Stand was always, and should still be the home of the Stags faithful.

Being in there for the West Ham and Leicester games will always be standout moments in my time as a Stags supporter.

It was a sad day when we were removed from the North Stand.
Amber Andy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4593
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:38 am

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Richard Cranium » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:40 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:Why is this such an emotive issue?


Because it takes me 4 minutes longer to get to the Byron after the game
Richard Cranium
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2774
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:37 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby spanishstag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:42 pm

Well i was in the quarry lane at first for the west ham game 3 shillings for my ticket got moved up to the corner of the north stand bishop street , against leicester i was in the corner of quarry lane ,west stand ,bloody frightening 12 years old ,a few barriers collapsed my dad stood behind me with his foot against the wall ,daft as it seems i felt safe just because he was me dad,happy days
spanishstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sedgwick » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:10 pm

Only this could happen at stags... gates of 4,000. Yet when derby get 30,000 nothings happens.
Sedgwick
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Scothie the Stag » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:57 pm

Foresttownstag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:The solution is.

1 Give us the North Stand back.

2 Keep the away fans in the ground for 30 mins after the match finishes ( as we were at the Prozac )

3 Keep kick off times to 3pm ( 7:45 for mid week games ).


Common sense Andy, they won’t do that!


Both posts seconded. We have been held back at plenty of places over the years... Chesterfield, Scunny and Hull to name a few, yet Notts Police/S.A.G. claim they can't retain away fans. Odd.
Scothie the Stag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:28 am

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:17 pm

Bizarre that the closest stand to the town centre, the North Stand is not a home stand!

Whilst some away fans travel by train, surely not more than home fans walking to the town centre!

Also, bizarre that Mansfield appear to be singled out for so many 1.00pm kick-offs, Forest can play Sheff Wed at 3.00pm in front of a near 30,000 crowd, but Stags can't play Grimsby at 3.00pm with a crowd of about 5,000 !

Anybody would think we have the reputation of Millwall, don't understand it !

:coys:
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Amberheart » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
spanishstag wrote:As i remember stags fans moved into the west stand ,long before it was given over to away fans i remember going into the west stand terrace years ago mainly to goad the away fans in the quarry lane end
The North Stand was always, and should still be the home of the Stags faithful.

Being in there for the West Ham and Leicester games will always be standout moments in my time as a Stags supporter.

It was a sad day when we were removed from the North Stand.

Agreed I don't know of any other team who've been forced out of their own 'kop'
a stag is a proud & noble beast
User avatar
Amberheart
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2690
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:31 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby part time pete » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:40 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:I presume from this we are dealing with the old public footpath which used to be called Cinderella Walk and ran up the back of the old north stand. I think this went onto Bradder street or thereabouts and didn't bend to the back of the old west stand.

Notts county council employ a public rights of way officer who should respond to any enquiries and would be responsible for enforcing any unlawful closures.

It is entirely possible this footpath was diverted or even revoked with the development of the retail park or Bradder Street industrial area so the first job would be to ensure the right of way still exists. Again Nottinghamshire County Council should be able to supply this information, if necessary under a freedom of information request if they don't reply in the first instance.

A little research may save faces becoming yolk coloured. I would be surprised if the gate is across a public right of way as the area it leads to is entirely enclosed by fencing with no way out should the gates be locked. If the right of way still exists I think it probably carries on up to Bradder Street.


http://www.rowmaps.com/showmap.php?plac ... 34&lonew=W

This is the map
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
part time pete
Prediction League Manager
 
Posts: 5256
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby part time pete » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:52 pm

You will also notice that a piece of fencing is missing in the fence on quarry lane. This is because of the public right of way. It is immediately next to the car gates that can be locked to prevent vehicle access.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
part time pete
Prediction League Manager
 
Posts: 5256
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby part time pete » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:07 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Who is the fan representative on the SAG?


Paul Taylor of the SSA
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
part time pete
Prediction League Manager
 
Posts: 5256
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sneag » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:30 am

part time pete wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Who is the fan representative on the SAG?


Paul Taylor of the SSA


Tokenism
MANSFIELD TOWN FC - SPOILING YOUR WEEKENDS SINCE 1910.
User avatar
Sneag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6617
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:41 pm
Location: Evidently Chickentown

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:43 am

part time pete wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:I presume from this we are dealing with the old public footpath which used to be called Cinderella Walk and ran up the back of the old north stand. I think this went onto Bradder street or thereabouts and didn't bend to the back of the old west stand.

Notts county council employ a public rights of way officer who should respond to any enquiries and would be responsible for enforcing any unlawful closures.

It is entirely possible this footpath was diverted or even revoked with the development of the retail park or Bradder Street industrial area so the first job would be to ensure the right of way still exists. Again Nottinghamshire County Council should be able to supply this information, if necessary under a freedom of information request if they don't reply in the first instance.

A little research may save faces becoming yolk coloured. I would be surprised if the gate is across a public right of way as the area it leads to is entirely enclosed by fencing with no way out should the gates be locked. If the right of way still exists I think it probably carries on up to Bradder Street.


http://www.rowmaps.com/showmap.php?plac ... 34&lonew=W

This is the map


Yes Pete it's the same one that I looked at.

I have no doubt that map shows the route goes through the car park and also through the gate.

However the only document that has any legal standing is the order held by NCC. That document will describe the route in detail and should also have a plan attached.

Before I retired I was responsible for the enforcement of some Road Traffic Orders and my experience was that maps and information published on the net by third parties did not always conform with what was in the orders. The net details had no legal standing but caused lots of people to get upset and demand enforcement.

Whilst I accept the chances are that this map is probably correct, the sensible thing to do is check with the rights of way officer.

I was unaware of the gap in the fencing and that does alter the probability factor making the map more likely to be correct.

The biggest check for me is to ensure the order was actually changed when the route was diverted. This is not a cheap process and sometimes it isn't followed. If it wasn't altered you can forget any enforcement action as the diversion would not stand.

All in all an interesting situation and whatever your views on the gate, one that will entertain for some time to come.

Of course, if the gate is on a public footpath, an easy solution for the police and club would be to apply for a diversion around the top of the training pitch. I can't see why that wouldn't be granted and would take around three months to complete the process. The cost would probably fall on the club.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
Sandy Pate Best Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1516
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:37 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby part time pete » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:34 am

This is the reason the new west stand was not moved twenty yards west so that more room could be allowed for an enlarged Bishop Street Stand is because KTH would not pay the cost of diverting the public right of way 20 yards to the west.

In addition when CAMBRA hold their events in the Sandy Pate bar and extend into the car park. They charge admission / ticket from the quarry lane end and retail park end and have someone stationed on each gate to escort anyone who just wants to walk through rather than folk getting in for free as they can’t legally close the gates.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
part time pete
Prediction League Manager
 
Posts: 5256
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: Closing the gate and the law - We need to stand up!

Postby Jimstag » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:35 am

Sneag wrote:
part time pete wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:Who is the fan representative on the SAG?


Paul Taylor of the SSA


Tokenism


I’m assuming Paul would say something given the volume of fans that comment, so is it a case of “this is your opportunity to have your say but we’re going to do what we want anyway?”
Jimstag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 515
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:09 am

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1951stagsfan, Grendon Stag, James, La Manga Stag and 27 guests