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Re: Missing person

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:20 am

yorkshire stag wrote:i think it will depend how they are treated, ie will they be made to train with the kids or be welcomed back into the first team squad, always rated Zander so more than happy if he stays
Yes they need to be treated as first team squad players. There is no reason to suggest they will be treated any other way. It is not in a manager's interest to create a divided camp.

Equally it is the responsibility of the players to buy into the way DF wants to play. If they are true professionals they will.

As Rio Ferdinand said he did not like the way Erickson wanted him to play. But he wanted to play for England so he gave it his best efforts.
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Re: Missing person

Postby Jamie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:08 am

Sorry but if you've been transfer listed then how are you supposed to buy into anything. In the back of your mind the whole time is that the gaffer doesn't want or rate me.

He created a divide when he listed them.

If we're relying on some of the listed players then DF has messed up. Either by listing and upsetting them at all, or failing to move them on or replace them.

If no one will touch them due to wage demands, I can see them being loaned out and us trying to recover as much of the wage was we can. Either way it's a ridiculous situation to be in.
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Re: Missing person

Postby The One » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:19 am

Have to agree with you there Jamie. Who will buy a season ticket to watch a squad with listed players ? People on here say we have squad of 20, of which 6 are on the list. We still do not have the elusive striker we have needed for last two seasons. My confidence is not high at the time of writing this.
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Re: Missing person

Postby kcassellsfootygenius » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:31 am

There is always a danger that people imagine that everyone will react the same as they would in a particular situation. Sure some who are transfer listed will sulk and moan and not be involved others will see it as great motivation and incentive to prove the manager wrong whether that happens or not remains to be seen.

These aren't lads having a kick about on a playing field it is their job and as such they will want to be viewed in a professional light for future employers. Diamond and Anderson are over 30 but even if they see out this year I doubt they want this to be their last club.

I do find it interesting that the ones who moan about not hearing from the manager are the same ones who don't want him here in the main, you would think they would be happy not to here from someone they actively dislike so much.
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Re: Missing person

Postby cassellswasmagic » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:44 am

Quite possibly most of the listed players are the higher earners and whilst DF might rate them, maybe he also feels he could get better value for money elsewhere. Whilst I like Anderson, I feel for the supposed £3,000 pw he’s on he hasn’t impressed me when I’ve seen him play. He just seems a good league 2 player. I think DF is right to look for the same quality or better at a lower price. He would be daft not to imo and we would all do the same.
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Re: Missing person

Postby Rob » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:44 am

kcassellsfootygenius wrote:There is always a danger that people imagine that everyone will react the same as they would in a particular situation. Sure some who are transfer listed will sulk and moan and not be involved others will see it as great motivation and incentive to prove the manager wrong whether that happens or not remains to be seen.

These aren't lads having a kick about on a playing field it is their job and as such they will want to be viewed in a professional light for future employers. Diamond and Anderson are over 30 but even if they see out this year I doubt they want this to be their last club.

I do find it interesting that the ones who moan about not hearing from the manager are the same ones who don't want him here in the main, you would think they would be happy not to here from someone they actively dislike so much.


So very true, when a new manager takes over it is inevitable he will want to bring in his own players. The problem our manager now has is that those he wants to replace are on good money and have another year left, he is suffering from Evans legacy.
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Re: Missing person

Postby DogsDoDahs » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:07 am

Also true that the ones who are lovers of floppy are already starting to make excuses for his future failings blaming the turd we had before. Its a management error to tell all your most expensive wage earners your all on the transfer list just because floppy wants something better value for money. The fact is they have job contracts which have to be seen out. It would have been better to say nothing but if offers come in then just allow them to leave if they want. Its not e bay, you cant just advertise them for sale for a quid and see if people want to start a bidding war.
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Re: Missing person

Postby bellwhiff » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:10 am

Jamie wrote:Sorry but if you've been transfer listed then how are you supposed to buy into anything. In the back of your mind the whole time is that the gaffer doesn't want or rate me.

He created a divide when he listed them.

If we're relying on some of the listed players then DF has messed up. Either by listing and upsetting them at all, or failing to move them on or replace them.

If no one will touch them due to wage demands, I can see them being loaned out and us trying to recover as much of the wage was we can. Either way it's a ridiculous situation to be in.

Utter pap. They’re employees and the manager will make it very clear that if they’re still in the squad at the end of the transfer window, they’ll be fully integrated members of the squad. If they’re any sort of professional, they will want to prove him wrong.

You have no idea.
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Re: Missing person

Postby kcassellsfootygenius » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:16 am

DogsDoDahs wrote:Also true that the ones who are lovers of floppy are already starting to make excuses for his future failings blaming the turd we had before. Its a management error to tell all your most expensive wage earners your all on the transfer list just because floppy wants something better value for money. The fact is they have job contracts which have to be seen out. It would have been better to say nothing but if offers come in then just allow them to leave if they want. Its not e bay, you cant just advertise them for sale for a quid and see if people want to start a bidding war.
:coys:


Ironically that is almost exactly what a transfer list is :lol: :lol:
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Re: Missing person

Postby Rob » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:25 am

kcassellsfootygenius wrote:
DogsDoDahs wrote:Also true that the ones who are lovers of floppy are already starting to make excuses for his future failings blaming the turd we had before. Its a management error to tell all your most expensive wage earners your all on the transfer list just because floppy wants something better value for money. The fact is they have job contracts which have to be seen out. It would have been better to say nothing but if offers come in then just allow them to leave if they want. Its not e bay, you cant just advertise them for sale for a quid and see if people want to start a bidding war.
:coys:


Ironically that is almost exactly what a transfer list is :lol: :lol:


I know, you couldn't make it up :lol: It always happens when a new manager takes over, he rightly wants his own players - however, he is hamstrung by the fact that the players he wants to move on are on big money for this level and so finding a taker will be tough.
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Re: Missing person

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:56 am

You also have the chance that some of those players on the transfer list have asked for it. Got limited game time compared to what was promised being a good example. They may not like DF new training regime.

Also, as for players on transfer list not to give a damn, what utter rubbish. If those players had anything to do with the side then surely putting yourself in the shop window by playing well would be the best option? Some of the younger players may get disenchanted but we can find a loan club for them for the season. A few of those player were out of contention for decent periods. even Anderson played out of position (a reason to request a transfer)

The club aren't going to reveal if a play was put on the transfer list by the manager or the player asked for it. Imagine the scenes on here if they did.
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Re: Missing person

Postby stagmanrob » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:59 am

Think Flitcroft has a history of trying to get out experienced players at previous clubs.

Bobby Hassell mentioned it as his big mistake at Barnsley in the Mansfield Matters podcast.

I can see him having to swallow his pride and play a fair few of them though, as it seems that there aren't going to be any takers on them due to their current wage packets. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing though, it's hardly like they are all abysmal footballers. It will be more of a test of Flitcroft's actual management skills too if they did remain.
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Re: Missing person

Postby Jamie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:16 pm

Funny how some on here now are saying 'they are pro's, they'll do there job' etc, as if this won't or shouldn't effect them. Yet the same posters cry on when fans abuse players, claiming it will effect them. I'm sorry but having bad feedback from customers (ie fans) is far less detrimental to someone if the manager is backing them and believes in them, than having it the other way round where the manager has made it clear he doesn't want you.

You can't have it both ways... There is surely no way the players who are listed will be anything like as happy as those who aren't. Its like when people in the work place are under threat of redundancy. Productivity goes down and it effects everyone as a result. I can't see who there won't be a divide in the camp between those the gaffer wants / signed and those who he's actively trying to get rid of.

I'm sure some of them will still try, will be professional and get on with it to prove him wrong, but it's a really poor position to be in where (as it stands) we have more 1/3 of our pros (forgetting the kids who mostly aren't ready) on the list and who know they will be shipped out either permanently or on loan at the first opportunity.

I'm not just digging at DF, i didn't rate him last year but he's got a clean slate from me this year. I'm not being impatient about signings, i'll judge him again fairly on the squad he's assembled come the end of the window and how we perform next season.
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Re: Missing person

Postby Jamie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:19 pm

gazza1988 wrote:You also have the chance that some of those players on the transfer list have asked for it. Got limited game time compared to what was promised being a good example. They may not like DF new training regime.


True, but i would also imagine those players would be the easy ones to ship out... If you were on 3k a week here, but knew that was a good wage for the level, if you wanted out you'd be more likely to accept a sensible wage elsewhere and given the players were talking about, most should be able to find other L2 clubs, willing to pay a fair wage. To want out, but refuse to take a cut seems daft and unrealistic. Its those players who we shouldn't let anywhere near our first team, despite the cost.
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Re: Missing person

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:14 pm

DogsDoDahs wrote:Also true that the ones who are lovers of floppy are already starting to make excuses for his future failings blaming the turd we had before. Its a management error to tell all your most expensive wage earners your all on the transfer list just because floppy wants something better value for money. The fact is they have job contracts which have to be seen out. It would have been better to say nothing but if offers come in then just allow them to leave if they want. Its not e bay, you cant just advertise them for sale for a quid and see if people want to start a bidding war.
:coys:


Been out in the pub beer garden much this weekend dude? :P

I know i'm a fairly staunch supporter of DF, but none of the critics seem to want to look far beyond 'results only' with much of a convincing argument. Not 100% sure, but i'd guess your deportation papers have come in for expulsion from reality ;)

I can't imagine DF playing 'transfer chicken' and hoping to offload these players by keeping them off the radar? If he didn't sell them he'd be lumbered and no doubt sacked for being so suicidal, and if he did sell even a few he'd lose all trust and respect of the players thinking they're also on 'transfer deathrow'. I can't think of a manger who wouldn't have his credibly ripped a new one by doing something so underhand. No-one would ever sign for then....unless of course this is your ideal scenario for getting DF out of course?


Honestly can't see a football manager in the land who'd try to shift under-performing and overpriced players with contracts still to run by sticking them at the back of the shelf, effectively slapping a 'not for sale' sticker on them. Neither of us would rush down to Curry's and pay £200 extra for a TV that wasn't for sale and didn't live up to it's reputation, now would we? ;)
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Re: Missing person

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:21 pm

Jamie wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:You also have the chance that some of those players on the transfer list have asked for it. Got limited game time compared to what was promised being a good example. They may not like DF new training regime.


True, but i would also imagine those players would be the easy ones to ship out... If you were on 3k a week here, but knew that was a good wage for the level, if you wanted out you'd be more likely to accept a sensible wage elsewhere and given the players were talking about, most should be able to find other L2 clubs, willing to pay a fair wage. To want out, but refuse to take a cut seems daft and unrealistic. Its those players who we shouldn't let anywhere near our first team, despite the cost.



For some players i'd agree Jamie, but definitely not all. Those players are likely the ones to have the pride to fight their way back into the team, but some players definitely do coast and take money over match experience. To sell even at lower wages does imply you need to have someone prepared to come knocking with enough money to be close to what's needed - we have no idea who if anyone has been approached

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Re: Missing person

Postby DogsDoDahs » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:36 pm

Not really been out drinking or in the sun dude!! Just dont think Floppy has much idea about man management of the players he inherited. The fact is he IS LUMBERED with the six transfer listed players and will have no choice to select some of them to play. We will be lucky to offload half of them, so use them and manage them properly. Never said put them at the back of the shelf either. There are some good players in that list and didn't become bad players overnight when floppy arrived and dismantled our season. They were performing quite well before he arrived if my memory serves me right. Remember Newport. Cant see another 5-0 score against them first game of season, well perhaps on your cheap television maybe hey!!! The only reason he should be sacked as a manager is if HE continues to under-performs further this season. Wish him luck I really do but im not holding my breath if we dont find a striker soon.
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Re: Missing person

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:50 pm

I agree, 3D's ;)

Yes he is definitely lumbered, and perhaps he might have been more delicate with the handling. But i'm completely at a loss to determine how you keep a player's enthusiasm and morale high while sticking them on the transfer list?

Putting them on that list couldn't be done surreptitiously - if the player's agent didn't notify him then he's bound to guess if a club comes knocking! :P
Not putting them on the list (aka - back shelf) is too dangerous a route for me - rarely do clubs at our level buy out players for the sort of money wanted. It's usually wealthy Champ clubs who spot someone playing 1+ leagues better than current standing, and often go for someone at a club in financial trouble who will probably accept low offers to stay afloat.

I don't think any of our transfer-listed players regularly showed League 1 skills, nor are we skint or facing the league trap door to force our hand. Only club offering to pay top dollar would be Warner Bros Looney Tunes Starting XI :P


Given all that i'm not sure how you think he should have played out, bud? Fully admit i made have over-simplified, but bottom line is he's here to strip out the players he doesn't believe can fit his style or consistently live up to their price tag / quality, or have a poor attitude and low commitment
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Re: Missing person

Postby PaulG » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:55 pm

The suggestion that David Flitcroft has in some way mishandled the issue of transfers is just daft. Players (and, more to the point, their agents) need to know whether they need to be looking for another club, if the alternative is to stay put and sit on the bench. Their attraction to other clubs diminishes the longer they are out of action. They, like everyone else, are looking for as long a career and as much job security as they can get. To that end, they need to be playing football, either here or elsewhere. So, they need to be told that they're available for transfer, and, equally, if they can't find a new club immediately, they need to playing at the top of their game for us, in order to attract a buyer. How else do you suggest the matter could have been handled?
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Re: Missing person

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:07 pm

Jamie wrote:Sorry but if you've been transfer listed then how are you supposed to buy into anything. In the back of your mind the whole time is that the gaffer doesn't want or rate me.

He created a divide when he listed them.

If we're relying on some of the listed players then DF has messed up. Either by listing and upsetting them at all, or failing to move them on or replace them.

If no one will touch them due to wage demands, I can see them being loaned out and us trying to recover as much of the wage was we can. Either way it's a ridiculous situation to be in.



So what's the alternative bud, not to transfer list them at all?


Every manager creates a divide at that point - only difference is DF will have a near-impossible job to move those players
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Re: Missing person

Postby DogsDoDahs » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:08 pm

We will never be told why a player is really on a transfer list, its a private matter. But a player should only go on a list if its been fully agreed with the player well before it happens. To interview all the players at the end of a reasonably ok season, when as a manager you only recently arrived, does not suggest its what the player would want himself but what the manager wants to happen. You are not in the managers plans so on the list you go like it or not. Thats how it appears when you stick six contracted players on a list at the same time. If the manager accepts he id going to struggle to sell some of them on because of a wage structure or whatever, then the manager is saddled and has to manage his assets. Dont put them on any list at all. They are contracted stags players and are likely to be staying in the above circumstances so don't miss-manage them, get them playing as well as possible for another season until you release them as not wanted when they are no longer contracted. If another club wants your players and all parties are happy then move them on, cheaply if necessary and make sure its undisclosed. At the end of the day the manager is not going to get five or six new players while six transfer listed players are still on the books, so we may have to go with what we have. Easier to motivate players who are not transfer listed.
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Re: Missing person

Postby Marky Mark » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:21 pm

I might be wrong but I suspect that those people holding out for an elusive or marquee striker are going to be very disappointed. DF has already talked up Angol more than just about any other player at the club since he's been here, so Angol is very much a key man in his plans - whether fans like it or not - Danny Rose would also have got 20 goals last season if he hadn't been injured, and is contracted for a couple more years - so it feels like they're his main men already. Sterling-James, whilst not the finished product, is with us for a while too - and is good to come on from the bench. What he might do is supplement the forward line with an established young striker from a higher league - and Tyler Walker very much fits that mould. I'd imagine that, like others have suggested, that he might be looking for a bigger contribution from midfield, so could be focusing his budget on a goal scoring midfielder, or two.
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Re: Missing person

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:40 pm

Jamie wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:You also have the chance that some of those players on the transfer list have asked for it. Got limited game time compared to what was promised being a good example. They may not like DF new training regime.


True, but i would also imagine those players would be the easy ones to ship out... If you were on 3k a week here, but knew that was a good wage for the level, if you wanted out you'd be more likely to accept a sensible wage elsewhere and given the players were talking about, most should be able to find other L2 clubs, willing to pay a fair wage. To want out, but refuse to take a cut seems daft and unrealistic. Its those players who we shouldn't let anywhere near our first team, despite the cost.


While I see where you are coming from there Jamie some players may live a £3k a week lifestyle. Are you saying that footballers live on a few hundred quid a week and just save the rest? Now that's daft. If this players on £3k a week perhaps can't afford a pay cut at this time. I don't know what you do for a living but how easy would you adjust to a potential 33% pay cut? Some will stay on the wage and cut down ready for the following summer when they can go on a free transfer.

Also what can happen in the modern game is a player can ask his current club to still pay him the difference between his new wage and his old wage. It's a practice kept entirely secret for obvious reasons. What you have to remember is the club signed a contract with the player that says they will pay £3k a week until the expiry date of the contract. Whilst this would cause outrage for fans paying a player that doesn't play for them anymore but if you look at it a different way then, in the example above, if we pay a player £1k a week for a year is essentially paying up his contract but saving 66% of the cost.
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