{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Marky Mark » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:16 am

Controlled & Clueless. If this is the big life, well I ain't looking to live it.
@watski
User avatar
Marky Mark
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby SINA STAG » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:17 pm

On EFL his record is only 31.7% below Adam Murray....
A Stag for life not just through good times.... 4 4 2 living the dream.....
SINA STAG
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:48 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby m1cksut » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:41 pm

and ian greaves gets a whole side of the ground named after him, for being the 23rd best manager we ever had!
at that rate, paul cox should get the north stand, bishop st AND quarry lane named after him!
my one regret is...i have no regrets!
User avatar
m1cksut
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:18 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Jamie » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:46 pm

Do those stats only include league games?

For MM to suggest SE wasn't as good as PC is ridiculous... if Evans had managed us in the BSP with the money Cox had his overall record would be even higher.

Cox nearly lost his job (and did lose the fans) in both his conference seasons.
Jamie
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4214
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Mansfield

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Rob » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:53 pm

By league games Martin, of course, means league and non-league - the two are very, very different beasts!

Evans should be number one, he has had the most money any of our managers has ever had. Dave Smith of course, our finest ever manager no matter what the stats say, went an entire season unbeaten at home and won the league, he also built the bulk of the side that later went on to win another Championship. Yet according to that table Evans is a better manager - I've just wet myself!
User avatar
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3651
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Vice President » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:59 pm

Ahh .... an opportunity to use my Disraeli quote :) As Disraeli once said: "There are 3 types of lies ...... lies, damn lies, and statistics!"

Those stats don't show that Dave Smith, Ian Greaves & Peter Morris were probably the 3 best managers we ever had. (Not to mention one or two others who are well down the list).

Winning percentage stats only shows part of the picture. (It doesn't show the loss percentage for example, or take into account the league, the standard of competition, the circumstances that the manager faced, or the style of football).

Paul Cox was certainly effective and he did a great job in getting us promoted, but he is not as good a/successful manager as Steve Evans .... statistically at least ;)
Vice President
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1483
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:07 pm

Jamie wrote:Do those stats only include league games?

For MM to suggest SE wasn't as good as PC is ridiculous... if Evans had managed us in the BSP with the money Cox had his overall record would be even higher.

Cox nearly lost his job (and did lose the fans) in both his conference seasons.

if you followed the link through to the "full list" you'll see it explained

here it is
http://stagsnet.net/vintage/reports/manager_records.htm
"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
Martin Shaw
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16409
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:20 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:11 pm

Rob wrote:By league games Martin, of course, means league and non-league - the two are very, very different beasts!

Evans should be number one, he has had the most money any of our managers has ever had. Dave Smith of course, our finest ever manager no matter what the stats say, went an entire season unbeaten at home and won the league, he also built the bulk of the side that later went on to win another Championship. Yet according to that table Evans is a better manager - I've just wet myself!

It's the percentage of games won, whatever the league, on the basis that you can only beat what is in front of you.

There is no system that could possibly take into account the league you are in, the budget you are given, the quality of the squad you inherited. That simply would have to be subjective, and we can all have our own opinion. For me, Dave Smith was our best ever manager. When I chose my best ever Stags XI, I had him as the manager.

I will add a paragraph at the bottom of that history page to further clarify.
"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
Martin Shaw
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16409
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:20 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Rob » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:19 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Rob wrote:By league games Martin, of course, means league and non-league - the two are very, very different beasts!

Evans should be number one, he has had the most money any of our managers has ever had. Dave Smith of course, our finest ever manager no matter what the stats say, went an entire season unbeaten at home and won the league, he also built the bulk of the side that later went on to win another Championship. Yet according to that table Evans is a better manager - I've just wet myself!

It's the percentage of games won, whatever the league, on the basis that you can only beat what is in front of you.

There is no system that could possibly take into account the league you are in, the budget you are given, the quality of the squad you inherited. That simply would have to be subjective, and we can all have our own opinion. For me, Dave Smith was our best ever manager. When I chose my best ever Stags XI, I had him as the manager.

I will add a paragraph at the bottom of that history page to further clarify.


I know Martin, we've been discussing this for at least 20 years :lol: I do maintain though that league and non-league records should be separate, now that I don't think would be impossible.
User avatar
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3651
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:28 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
Martin Shaw
Site Admin
 
Posts: 16409
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:20 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby geoffhill » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:31 pm

Dave Smith IS our best ever manager.
geoffhill
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:42 pm

The National League Premier is a tough league and takes some winning so Paul Cox deserves a massive amount of respect for winning it. 22 wins in 25 games was unbelievable.

David Flitcroft was not doing bad at Swindon. A 50% win rate in League 2 is pretty impressive.
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Bradders » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:56 pm

Rob wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Rob wrote:By league games Martin, of course, means league and non-league - the two are very, very different beasts!

Evans should be number one, he has had the most money any of our managers has ever had. Dave Smith of course, our finest ever manager no matter what the stats say, went an entire season unbeaten at home and won the league, he also built the bulk of the side that later went on to win another Championship. Yet according to that table Evans is a better manager - I've just wet myself!

It's the percentage of games won, whatever the league, on the basis that you can only beat what is in front of you.

There is no system that could possibly take into account the league you are in, the budget you are given, the quality of the squad you inherited. That simply would have to be subjective, and we can all have our own opinion. For me, Dave Smith was our best ever manager. When I chose my best ever Stags XI, I had him as the manager.

I will add a paragraph at the bottom of that history page to further clarify.


I know Martin, we've been discussing this for at least 20 years :lol: I do maintain though that league and non-league records should be separate, now that I don't think would be impossible.

I don't see the reasoning. By the same token, you'd have to argue that League One / Third Division records should be separate from League Two / Fourth Division. There's nothing objective about that really, as it all depends on various circumstances anyway.

For instance, we know that the Conference is a lot harder to win promotion from than League 2 so on the face of it, it's a bigger achievement for a non-League side to break into the EFL. Particularly in the face of the low level of interest from the public and sponsors at that level. However, you've always maintained that Cox bought in lots of top-class Football League players such as Rhead, Briscoe, Stevenson and Meikle, and basically bought his way out of the league whilst the likes of Luton and Forest Green had to wait their turn due to lack of investment. So I guess that you're thinking that this achievement doesn't count the same as his 11th-place finish the following season which in any case, with a reduced win ratio, would put him further down the list of Division 4 managers. However, this was achieved with pretty much the non-League lot - minus star striker - so is perhaps as good a result as any manager at this level, bar those that actually won promotion.

So my point is, that with all the variables it's impossible to be at all objective. Therefore, a bare "win ratio" basis seems as fair as anything when you bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily mean that a particular manager is "better" than another. It's a decent starting point for a judgement though, and at least it indicates some measure of success with results - which is the bottom line in this game.
User avatar
Bradders
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:58 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby The One » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:46 pm

Lies damn lies and statistics
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9458
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Hjeldefan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:37 pm

Paul Cox had a decent budget in the conference...and we won the league. Evans had a decent budget in League 2 and we are 5th. Cox did a better job, with a better attitude than Evans by a country mile.
Hjeldefan
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby m1cksut » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:55 am

Hjeldefan wrote:Paul Cox had a decent budget in the conference...and we won the league. Evans had a decent budget in League 2 and we are 5th. Cox did a better job, with a better attitude than Evans by a country mile.



:good_post:
my one regret is...i have no regrets!
User avatar
m1cksut
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:18 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Bradders » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:45 pm

Hjeldefan wrote:Paul Cox had a decent budget in the conference...and we won the league. Evans had a decent budget in League 2 and we are 5th. Cox did a better job, with a better attitude than Evans by a country mile.

To be fair, we can't tell whether he'd have won League 2 - he left before finishing the job. Luton are looking a bit shaky at the moment and there's a chance that the gap could be down to 6 points after tonight's match.
User avatar
Bradders
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:58 pm

Re: Steve Evans: Not as good as Paul Cox

Postby Foxy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:58 pm

Cox out and staying out
User avatar
Foxy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5110
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:36 pm
Location: At the Coop


Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BoughtonStag71, oldnic, richardstag, Sammythestag, Stags 2002 and 38 guests