Rob wrote: Martin Shaw wrote:
Rob wrote:By league games Martin, of course, means league and non-league - the two are very, very different beasts!
Evans should be number one, he has had the most money any of our managers has ever had. Dave Smith of course, our finest ever manager no matter what the stats say, went an entire season unbeaten at home and won the league, he also built the bulk of the side that later went on to win another Championship. Yet according to that table Evans is a better manager - I've just wet myself!
It's the percentage of games won, whatever the league, on the basis that you can only beat what is in front of you.
There is no system that could possibly take into account the league you are in, the budget you are given, the quality of the squad you inherited. That simply would have to be subjective, and we can all have our own opinion. For me, Dave Smith was our best ever manager. When I chose my best ever Stags XI, I had him as the manager.
I will add a paragraph at the bottom of that history page to further clarify.
I know Martin, we've been discussing this for at least 20 years
I do maintain though that league and non-league records should be separate, now that I don't think would be impossible.
I don't see the reasoning. By the same token, you'd have to argue that League One / Third Division records should be separate from League Two / Fourth Division. There's nothing objective about that really, as it all depends on various circumstances anyway.
For instance, we know that the Conference is a lot harder to win promotion from than League 2 so on the face of it, it's a bigger achievement for a non-League side to break into the EFL. Particularly in the face of the low level of interest from the public and sponsors at that level. However, you've always maintained that Cox bought in lots of top-class Football League players such as Rhead, Briscoe, Stevenson and Meikle, and basically bought his way out of the league whilst the likes of Luton and Forest Green had to wait their turn due to lack of investment. So I guess that you're thinking that this achievement doesn't count the same as his 11th-place finish the following season which in any case, with a reduced win ratio, would put him further down the list of Division 4 managers. However, this was achieved with pretty much the non-League lot - minus star striker - so is perhaps as good a result as any manager at this level, bar those that actually won promotion.
So my point is, that with all the variables it's impossible to be at all objective. Therefore, a bare "win ratio" basis seems as fair as anything when you bear in mind that it doesn't necessarily mean that a particular manager is "better" than another. It's a decent starting point for a judgement though, and at least it indicates some measure of success with results - which is the bottom line in this game.