League 2 Accounts 2016-2017

[The One]

1997 ?

[MTFCMusings]

1997 ?

Just a typing error, picture shows 2017.

[MTFCMAD]

I really don’t understand it at all.

Just want to know how much we made, how much we spent and if how much of a loss/profit we made.

[halifaxstag]

Basically we made a loss of £130,000 in the six months of those accounts (or £5000 per week as stated in the tweet)
The Company/club/JR has not released any income or expenditure figures, just a bottom line figure.

[MTFCMAD]

To be fair £130k for Half a season under Evans is better than I expected.

[wayno cordiniho]

133k loss in those 6 months
Knock on effect on cash balance 78k lower
Owed £300k by other parties
Owed £4m+ to other parties

[halifaxstag]

It is not necessarily the whole story but does seem reasonable, particularly considering a couple of other facts.
Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period.
The clubs assets seem to be increasing over the last few years which means we are either purchasing tangible goods/property,or the goods we have are increasing in value.

[Stags 2002]

£133k loss at retained earnings level suggests EBIT (earns before interest and tax) would be pretty much in line but without understanding the breakdown of the large other creditors balance there may be financing costs to add back for true EBIT.

Id suggest debtors includes stocks which at the end of June would include the new home shirt going on sale and any monies owed from player sales outstanding (small amount for clucas etc). Debtors December y/end would include any monies owed for home tickets sold at away grounds (who knows the payment terms around this), match day stocks and monies outstanding from player sales.

Working capital requirements driving cash in December (mid season) compared to close season will be vastly different and fluctuate so would need to compare y.o.y but depending on fixtures could be misleading. Given we played Carlisle the next day i'd expect an inflow from match day sales converting stock (other debtors) into cash.

Other creditors are reducing and would include final payments owed to hasloan. Loans owed to Radford, Hymas etc some of which have been converted into equity (3rd of July this year if i remember correctly?). Expect a large increase in share capital next year and reduction in other creditors c.£4.5m to support this, also supports my comment regarding financing costs and any interest payments tied into this which may reduce the losses.

Without a full p&l, balance sheet and cash flow makes it tricky but they are the points I can extract.

[Stoney]

I haven't got a clue what anybody has just said.

[chip63]

I haven't got a clue what anybody has just said.

We are in a good position. Most of the money we owe is to John Radford. If he sold tomorrow for a pound he loses about 4 million.
If he stays and we get promoted, cup runs etc he could be making 500k to 1 mill a year.
He will never pay the 4 mill loan off because it's not worth it.
Man Utd owe 65 million? And could pay it off anytime but don't.
It's better to just pay off the interest and be left with the same loan amount each year.
It's all about the tax you pay or don't pay.
Running at a loss we don't pay any tax

It could be worse we could be in the non league playing in a tesco car park on a Sunday.

[manssmooth]

I haven't got a clue what anybody has just said.

We are in a good position. Most of the money we owe is to John Radford. If he sold tomorrow for a pound he loses about 4 million.
If he stays and we get promoted, cup runs etc he could be making 500k to 1 mill a year.
He will never pay the 4 mill loan off because it's not worth it.
Man Utd owe 65 million? And could pay it off anytime but don't.
It's better to just pay off the interest and be left with the same loan amount each year.
It's all about the tax you pay or don't pay.
Running at a loss we don't pay any tax

It could be worse we could be in the non league playing in a tesco car park on a Sunday.

Oooooh your'e for it now! Wait till Jamie finds out

[MTFCMAD]

I haven't got a clue what anybody has just said.

We are in a good position. Most of the money we owe is to John Radford. If he sold tomorrow for a pound he loses about 4 million.
If he stays and we get promoted, cup runs etc he could be making 500k to 1 mill a year.
He will never pay the 4 mill loan off because it's not worth it.
Man Utd owe 65 million? And could pay it off anytime but don't.
It's better to just pay off the interest and be left with the same loan amount each year.
It's all about the tax you pay or don't pay.
Running at a loss we don't pay any tax

It could be worse we could be in the non league playing in a tesco car park on a Sunday.

Oooooh your'e for it now! Wait till Jamie finds out

He’ll just be upset his mate Keith not be getting any of that 4 million quid

[Dave Wayne]

Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period

Income and expenditure has to be accounted for in the period when goods/services are received.
Therefore, any season ticket income received in the previous accounting period would be classed as a prepayment and adjusted into the correct year, so these figures will include the 'early bird' sales.

[halifaxstag]

Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period

Income and expenditure has to be accounted for in the period when goods/services are received.
Therefore, any season ticket income received in the previous accounting period would be classed as a prepayment and adjusted into the correct year, so these figures will include the 'early bird' sales.

No, it doesn’t. It depends on how the accountant/client wants to deal with it. I physically received my season ticket in July 2017 but the club took my money in May. Had I received the service in July or May. No I hadn’t but the income could have been declared at either point or when the actual service is received. In fact this is what clubs like Cheaterfield/Arsenal do- they receive the money but only declare it on a match day basis in order to spread (amongst other things) their VAT liability. This is why they can also falsely declare their attendances.

[Dave Wayne]

Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period

Income and expenditure has to be accounted for in the period when goods/services are received.
Therefore, any season ticket income received in the previous accounting period would be classed as a prepayment and adjusted into the correct year, so these figures will include the 'early bird' sales.

No, it doesn’t. It depends on how the accountant/client wants to deal with it. I physically received my season ticket in July 2017 but the club took my money in May. Had I received the service in July or May. No I hadn’t but the income could have been declared at either point or when the actual service is received. In fact this is what clubs like Cheaterfield/Arsenal do- they receive the money but only declare it on a match day basis in order to spread (amongst other things) their VAT liability. This is why they can also falsely declare their attendances.

The service you are receiving is when you attend the matches so you don't receive it till the season starts.
Accounting regulations specify when the income is accounted for - not the accountant/client.
Income received in advance goes onto the balance sheet as a liability as the company still has to deliver the service that has been paid for.

[dublin_stag]

Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period

Income and expenditure has to be accounted for in the period when goods/services are received.
Therefore, any season ticket income received in the previous accounting period would be classed as a prepayment and adjusted into the correct year, so these figures will include the 'early bird' sales.

No, it doesn’t. It depends on how the accountant/client wants to deal with it. I physically received my season ticket in July 2017 but the club took my money in May. Had I received the service in July or May. No I hadn’t but the income could have been declared at either point or when the actual service is received. In fact this is what clubs like Cheaterfield/Arsenal do- they receive the money but only declare it on a match day basis in order to spread (amongst other things) their VAT liability. This is why they can also falsely declare their attendances.

The service you are receiving is when you attend the matches so you don't receive it till the season starts.
Accounting regulations specify when the income is accounted for - not the accountant/client.
Income received in advance goes onto the balance sheet as a liability as the company still has to deliver the service that has been paid for.

Isn’t the service received as soon as the seat is reserved for the season arguably?

[Dave Wayne]

Most of our season ticket sales were Early Bird which finished on 31st May so this income wouldn’t have been included in this period

Income and expenditure has to be accounted for in the period when goods/services are received.
Therefore, any season ticket income received in the previous accounting period would be classed as a prepayment and adjusted into the correct year, so these figures will include the 'early bird' sales.

No, it doesn’t. It depends on how the accountant/client wants to deal with it. I physically received my season ticket in July 2017 but the club took my money in May. Had I received the service in July or May. No I hadn’t but the income could have been declared at either point or when the actual service is received. In fact this is what clubs like Cheaterfield/Arsenal do- they receive the money but only declare it on a match day basis in order to spread (amongst other things) their VAT liability. This is why they can also falsely declare their attendances.

The service you are receiving is when you attend the matches so you don't receive it till the season starts.
Accounting regulations specify when the income is accounted for - not the accountant/client.
Income received in advance goes onto the balance sheet as a liability as the company still has to deliver the service that has been paid for.

Isn’t the service received as soon as the seat is reserved for the season arguably?

The service is attendance at the match, not reserving a seat for it.