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Chickenfeed progression

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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:12 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Jimstag » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:27 pm

A difficult debate, I see these games as a little better than behind close doors friendlies due to the prize money available and the fact that we can go if we want. Arguably the club has treated it this way playing fringe players and resting form players. However I’d still prefer a proper competition than what this has become. If B teams or u23/21 teams do make it into other competitions it will taint them as well.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby SINA STAG » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:37 pm

oldweststander wrote:No easy gams then?



Bury away looks the easiest passage if we get paired with them if they win 8 nil tonight PMSL
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby steve-hymas » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:25 pm

Hjeldefan wrote:Find it scary that someone working at the club looks at U21s playing in our competitions as a good idea. Playing a barely competitive game 3 times a season against league 2 sides is not going to make England world cup winners...
You bring the example of Barca playing B sides as working for them. That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Young players playing against men is a good way of improving them, but a better way of doing so would be to have a quota of young english players in premier league first teams, or going on loan to lower league teams. Why should the responsibility of improving England fall on the shoulders of teams like us, when we are given pathetic sums of money in comparison to the giants of English football?

It's not scary at all .I don't think anyone is going to take any notice .
The first thing I would do is restrict foreign players to two at every club .This would give young English lads more opportunities.But as most clubs are now owned by oversees residents very unlikely this will happen .The only option is to play them further down the pyramid .We do have to think outside the box to develope our young players.
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development .As long as their team win on a Saturday and Jeff stelling can pronounce Asombalonga that's all they care :D :mtfc:
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Jamie » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:19 pm

I don't buy the argument that foreign players and the lack of opportunities for English players in the Prem is harming England.

What was the excuse in the 70s 80s and early 90s, when we had hardly any foreign players???

You could ban all foreign players and all that would happen is the quality of our top league would decrease. All the main England players are first choice for their clubs and selected on merit... Playing with quality from abroad has, if anything, made a lot of them better. Fact is we don't do well as a team and the pressure and expectancy means we don't play our natural game in tournaments.

I wasn't that against the U21s joining the chickenfeed pot, but i think there are better solutions. A more flexible loan system is needed, without the windows. So a promising U21 can have a mouth out on loan anytime to keep match fit and get used to men's football. Too many are over protected and don't play enough competitive football.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:49 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:we will be away to one of: Fleetwood/Carlisle, Blackpool, Rochdale/Bury, Port Vale.

And the draw is Friday at 6.30pm[/b]

Checkatrade Trophy Round Two dates are: Week commencing 4th December 2017 (from https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/key-dates/)

Carlisle vs Fleetwood tonight. Carlisle need to win by 2 goals to win the group. Otherwise it will be Fleetwood who win the group.
Bury vs Stoke U23 tonight. Bury need to win by 7 (or might be 8, either way - highly unlikely) goals to win the group. Otherwise it will be Rochdale who win the group.

Ht Carlisle 0-2 Fleetwood. So Carlisle need 4 second half goals to win the group.
Ht Bury 3-0 Stoke U23. Unremarkable you might think. However Bruno Martins Indi, Charlie Adam, Ibrahim Afellay, and Saido Berahino are all in the Stoke side!! I watched Bury on Sunday at Woking and diabolical would be generous to them.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:40 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:we will be away to one of: Fleetwood/Carlisle, Blackpool, Rochdale/Bury, Port Vale.

And the draw is Friday at 6.30pm[/b]

Checkatrade Trophy Round Two dates are: Week commencing 4th December 2017 (from https://www.efl.com/clubs-and-competitions/key-dates/)

Carlisle vs Fleetwood tonight. Carlisle need to win by 2 goals to win the group. Otherwise it will be Fleetwood who win the group.
Bury vs Stoke U23 tonight. Bury need to win by 7 (or might be 8, either way - highly unlikely) goals to win the group. Otherwise it will be Rochdale who win the group.

Ht Carlisle 0-2 Fleetwood. So Carlisle need 4 second half goals to win the group.
Ht Bury 3-0 Stoke U23. Unremarkable you might think. However Bruno Martins Indi, Charlie Adam, Ibrahim Afellay, and Saido Berahino are all in the Stoke side!! I watched Bury on Sunday at Woking and diabolical would be generous to them.

Tonight's results in the Checkatrade Trophy mean Mansfield will be away to one of Fleetwood, Blackpool, Rochdale, or Port Vale, in Round 2. Draw on Friday at 6.30pm. Game w/c Dec 4
"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Hjeldefan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:13 am

Stoke giving these young english players a chance then. England will be world cup winners in no time!
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Stags 2002 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:07 pm

Steve - my 6 yr old son (7 in february for the right age bracket, under 8's?) is desperate to get into a local football team.

However, It does feel like a very closed network with no open advertisement of teams looking for players (from what ive found so far).

Can you suggest any ways in which i can find out more information? Why doesn't the club work with local youth teams and advertise which teams are actively looking for players and the age group? (stags academy starts at under 10's but what about before this)? After all if he and others in a similar position who can't find a route in become good players surely this benefits Mansfield Town as their are a wider pool of English players to progress through the ranks.

This does contribute to the problem and isn't just about foreign players.

Appreciate any feedback (if possible).
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby James » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:45 pm

steve-hymas wrote:
Hjeldefan wrote:Find it scary that someone working at the club looks at U21s playing in our competitions as a good idea. Playing a barely competitive game 3 times a season against league 2 sides is not going to make England world cup winners...
You bring the example of Barca playing B sides as working for them. That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Young players playing against men is a good way of improving them, but a better way of doing so would be to have a quota of young english players in premier league first teams, or going on loan to lower league teams. Why should the responsibility of improving England fall on the shoulders of teams like us, when we are given pathetic sums of money in comparison to the giants of English football?

It's not scary at all .I don't think anyone is going to take any notice .
The first thing I would do is restrict foreign players to two at every club .This would give young English lads more opportunities.But as most clubs are now owned by oversees residents very unlikely this will happen .The only option is to play them further down the pyramid .We do have to think outside the box to develope our young players.
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development .As long as their team win on a Saturday and Jeff stelling can pronounce Asombalonga that's all they care :D :mtfc:


Foreign players & managers have brought alot to our game in the past 25 years, why would we want to restrict that? Surely there's a better balance to be found than putting in restrictions on foreign players, they aren't the problem whatsoever with the state of the national game.
I've got a Grapefruit matter...
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Im not the real OND » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:06 pm

steve-hymas wrote:
Hjeldefan wrote:Find it scary that someone working at the club looks at U21s playing in our competitions as a good idea. Playing a barely competitive game 3 times a season against league 2 sides is not going to make England world cup winners...
You bring the example of Barca playing B sides as working for them. That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Young players playing against men is a good way of improving them, but a better way of doing so would be to have a quota of young english players in premier league first teams, or going on loan to lower league teams. Why should the responsibility of improving England fall on the shoulders of teams like us, when we are given pathetic sums of money in comparison to the giants of English football?

It's not scary at all .I don't think anyone is going to take any notice .
The first thing I would do is restrict foreign players to two at every club .This would give young English lads more opportunities.But as most clubs are now owned by oversees residents very unlikely this will happen .The only option is to play them further down the pyramid .We do have to think outside the box to develope our young players.
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development .As long as their team win on a Saturday and Jeff stelling can pronounce Asombalonga that's all they care :D :mtfc:


Which one of our 'foreign' players do you plan on releasing Steve?

Edit: And this ....
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development
...is an amazing quote from someone in charge of our youth teams!
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Hjeldefan » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:20 pm

The biggest factor hindering youth development, is the lack of restrictions on the bigger teams hoovering up talent from lower league teams like ourselves. Then, rather than developing their game in the lower leagues and working up, they get pampered and a lack of first team action at Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby adamstag » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:08 pm

James wrote:
steve-hymas wrote:
Hjeldefan wrote:Find it scary that someone working at the club looks at U21s playing in our competitions as a good idea. Playing a barely competitive game 3 times a season against league 2 sides is not going to make England world cup winners...
You bring the example of Barca playing B sides as working for them. That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Young players playing against men is a good way of improving them, but a better way of doing so would be to have a quota of young english players in premier league first teams, or going on loan to lower league teams. Why should the responsibility of improving England fall on the shoulders of teams like us, when we are given pathetic sums of money in comparison to the giants of English football?

It's not scary at all .I don't think anyone is going to take any notice .
The first thing I would do is restrict foreign players to two at every club .This would give young English lads more opportunities.But as most clubs are now owned by oversees residents very unlikely this will happen .The only option is to play them further down the pyramid .We do have to think outside the box to develope our young players.
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development .As long as their team win on a Saturday and Jeff stelling can pronounce Asombalonga that's all they care :D :mtfc:


Foreign players & managers have brought alot to our game in the past 25 years, why would we want to restrict that? Surely there's a better balance to be found than putting in restrictions on foreign players, they aren't the problem whatsoever with the state of the national game.


Whereas that's great for the premiership teams and clubs like Chelsea and Man Utd, 25 years of foreigners have done naff all for the English national team.

Just like the same for the French Rugby team who've suffered a similar fate with their increased cap salary as opposed to the English counterparts
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Big yella » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:11 pm

steve-hymas wrote:
Hjeldefan wrote:Find it scary that someone working at the club looks at U21s playing in our competitions as a good idea. Playing a barely competitive game 3 times a season against league 2 sides is not going to make England world cup winners...
You bring the example of Barca playing B sides as working for them. That is an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Young players playing against men is a good way of improving them, but a better way of doing so would be to have a quota of young english players in premier league first teams, or going on loan to lower league teams. Why should the responsibility of improving England fall on the shoulders of teams like us, when we are given pathetic sums of money in comparison to the giants of English football?

It's not scary at all .I don't think anyone is going to take any notice .
The first thing I would do is restrict foreign players to two at every club .This would give young English lads more opportunities.But as most clubs are now owned by oversees residents very unlikely this will happen .The only option is to play them further down the pyramid .We do have to think outside the box to develope our young players.
Most folk don't really give a toss about youth development .As long as their team win on a Saturday and Jeff stelling can pronounce Asombalonga that's all they care :D :mtfc:

So when Roman gives the club a call, and asks for our place in the football league so he can play his United Nations 'B' team you will be happy to give it up then Steve, all for the good of the young English players of course.

And you think it isn't scary that someone with a vote on the board has views like this.
Who needs a Dutchman, when we've got Holland.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Expat Stag » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:17 pm

adamstag wrote:Whereas that's great for the premiership teams and clubs like Chelsea and Man Utd, 25 years of foreigners have done naff all for the English national team.

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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby oldweststander » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:29 am

How many of those U17 and U20 players will EVER play a game in the Premier League?

Answer, not many.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby part time pete » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:10 pm

We are ball no.15 tonight
We might win against Accrington next time.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Spiritater » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Can't wait :lol:
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Paulstag » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:15 pm

Stags 2002 wrote:Steve - my 6 yr old son (7 in february for the right age bracket, under 8's?) is desperate to get into a local football team.

However, It does feel like a very closed network with no open advertisement of teams looking for players (from what ive found so far).

Can you suggest any ways in which i can find out more information? Why doesn't the club work with local youth teams and advertise which teams are actively looking for players and the age group? (stags academy starts at under 10's but what about before this)? After all if he and others in a similar position who can't find a route in become good players surely this benefits Mansfield Town as their are a wider pool of English players to progress through the ranks.

This does contribute to the problem and isn't just about foreign players.

Appreciate any feedback (if possible).


Sent you a PM.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Stags 2002 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:48 pm

Thanks Paul i'll send a reply.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Expat Stag » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:08 pm

oldweststander wrote:How many of those U17 and U20 players will EVER play a game in the Premier League?

Answer, not many.


Hart - U19 thru U21'S - West Ham
Pickford - U16 thru U21's - Everton

Cahill - U21's - Chelsea
Walker - U19 thru U21's - Man City
Jones - U19 thru U21's - Man Utd
Stones - U19 thru U21's - Man City
Bertrand - U17 thru U21's - Southampton
Rose - U16 thru U21's - Spurs
Keane - U19 thru U21's (U16 & 17's with Rep of Ire) - Everton
Trippier - U18 thru U21's - Spurs
Maguire - U21's - Leicester
Gomez - U16 thru U21's - Liverpool

Young - U21's - Utd
Dier - U18 thru U21's - Spurs
Lingard - U17 thru U21's - Utd
Livermore - West Brom
Cork -- U16 thru U21's - Burnley
Loftus-Cheek - U16 thru U21's - Palace

Vardy
Rashford - U16 thru U21's - Utd
Abraham - U18 thru U21's - Swansea

Out of the current 21 man National Team squad only two players never came through the NT's junior ranks at some point.

All of them play their football in the Premiership
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Foxy » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:03 pm

can we watch the draw anywhere? time etc?
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:12 pm

Foxy wrote:can we watch the draw anywhere? time etc?

it is on twitter only.
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby yorkshire stag » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:33 pm

bored now who we get ?
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Re: Chickenfeed progression

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:36 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:bored now who we get ?

you have to sit and watch new tweets pop up like everyone else. Let's hope it doesn't take 2 hours like the last round of the League Cup
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