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Policing costs

Postby adamstag » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:46 pm

If someone can find a link please do.

However, Ipswich have won in the court of appeal against Suffolk police arguing that all policing costs outside the ground are the responsibility of the police, which was upheld.

Apparently according to Sky sports news this will be used for clubs across the land against their respective police forces.

I hope MTFC investigate this thoroughly in the next week.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby STAGS FOR LIFE » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:53 pm

adamstag wrote:If someone can find a link please do.

However, Ipswich have won in the court of appeal against Suffolk police arguing that all policing costs outside the ground are the responsibility of the police, which was upheld.

Apparently according to Sky sports news this will be used for clubs across the land against their respective police forces.

I hope MTFC investigate this thoroughly in the next week.


;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-41567252

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/ipswi ... -1-5230342
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:07 pm

I thought Leeds Ute had already won this type of case several years ago?
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Jimstag » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:22 pm

Closing the gate makes a lot of sense now, get the away fans out of the stadium into a public space and block their way onto any club owned ground then it’s not the clubs problem.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby kevin kents tasce » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:42 pm

Not sure but i didn't think that we paid the Police for their out of ground presence?

The issue comes when a van full have to come into the ground when it starts kicking off. This jas happened twice this season already. How would / does the charging work then?

I suppose the Police could simply not put any extra staff on outside the ground for match days.

I would rather my tax was used to investigate serious crimes rather than watching idiots posturing at each other between pubs. Who would people blame if a pub was smashed up or someone was injured by football hooligans because there was no Policing activity in place?
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Grendon Stag » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:58 pm

Jimstag wrote:Closing the gate makes a lot of sense now, get the away fans out of the stadium into a public space and block their way onto any club owned ground then it’s not the clubs problem.



You'd have a point if it was the club who actually closed the gate!
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Re: Policing costs

Postby old ram stag » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:50 pm

the club only pay for the few officers dutied to work inside the ground, notts police cover outside and around even the ones called in during the game are not paid for by the club.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Dan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:37 pm

old ram stag wrote:the club only pay for the few officers dutied to work inside the ground, notts police cover outside and around even the ones called in during the game are not paid for by the club.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: Policing costs

Postby kevin kents tasce » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:38 pm

old ram stag wrote:the club only pay for the few officers dutied to work inside the ground, notts police cover outside and around even the ones called in during the game are not paid for by the club.


Non thread then!

Well done to MTFC and Notts Police for being ahead of the curve
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Dan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:38 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:Not sure but i didn't think that we paid the Police for their out of ground presence?

The issue comes when a van full have to come into the ground when it starts kicking off. This jas happened twice this season already. How would / does the charging work then?

I suppose the Police could simply not put any extra staff on outside the ground for match days.

I would rather my tax was used to investigate serious crimes rather than watching idiots posturing at each other between pubs. Who would people blame if a pub was smashed up or someone was injured by football hooligans because there was no Policing activity in place?


That's what CID are there for. PC's are basically just information gatherers these days. Anything serious they're not allowed to investigate & it goes to CID.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby old ram stag » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:48 pm

if your laughing at the "few officers dutied" Dan its normally around 5 and a sarg and only for about 5 hours and selected games 50% are police free , it may seem that there are more but they start outside and get called in normally when county are losing etc, but are not on the club budget.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby spanishstag » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:36 am

Keep up the good work dan :lol: ;)
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Mr Grimsdale » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:54 am

I see your loathing of all things policing has not dimmed Dan :lol:
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Dan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Mr Grimsdale wrote:I see your loathing of all things policing has not dimmed Dan :lol:


Not all things policing, just a few things :lol: :lol:
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Re: Policing costs

Postby The Source » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:17 pm

That's what CID are there for. PC's are basically just information gatherers these days. Anything serious they're not allowed to investigate & it goes to CID.

Oh if only that was the case
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Dan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:55 pm

Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Spiritater » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:06 pm

Dan wrote:Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.


And so they shouldn't. That's why we have judge and jury.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby The Source » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:06 pm

Spiritater wrote:
Dan wrote:Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.


And so they shouldn't. That's why we have judge and jury.

Judge & Jury's are for the serious crimes such as GBH, Possession with intent to supply, rape, serious driving offences etc and are heard in Crown Court, the majority of everyday crimes such as assaults, ABH, minor driving offences, some burglaries etc are heard in Magistrates Court.
In my experience CID mainly deal with the Crown Court stuff and domestic burglaries, virtually everything else is dealt with by uniform.
As a rule if it's serious stuff, domestic related or denied the CPS make the decision, everything else is decided by Police
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Re: Policing costs

Postby bellwhiff » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:12 pm

The Source wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
Dan wrote:Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.


And so they shouldn't. That's why we have judge and jury.

Judge & Jury's are for the serious crimes such as GBH, Possession with intent to supply, rape, serious driving offences etc and are heard in Crown Court, the majority of everyday crimes such as assaults, ABH, minor driving offences, some burglaries etc are heard in Magistrates Court.
In my experience CID mainly deal with the Crown Court stuff and domestic burglaries, virtually everything else is dealt with by uniform.
As a rule if it's serious stuff, domestic related or denied the CPS make the decision, everything else is decided by Police

That’s irrelevant. A jury or a magistrate decides guilt or innocence, not the police.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Spiritater » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:16 am

Yes, that's the point I trying to make whiffy. To give t'plod the power to decide whether you are guilty or not opens a pretty rotten can o'worms.

They'd have field day and could take anyone off the street in the vicinity of a recent crime and say, 'hey you're wearing a hoodie, you've got a bottle of White Storm in your hand and someone's just caved that lad's head in up the street. You're guilty'.

In reality the lad's on his way home from a late shift at work and picked up the bottle to put it in a bin.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby Sneag » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:59 pm

The Source wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
Dan wrote:Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.


And so they shouldn't. That's why we have judge and jury.

Judge & Jury's are for the serious crimes such as GBH, Possession with intent to supply, rape, serious driving offences etc and are heard in Crown Court, the majority of everyday crimes such as assaults, ABH, minor driving offences, some burglaries etc are heard in Magistrates Court.
In my experience CID mainly deal with the Crown Court stuff and domestic burglaries, virtually everything else is dealt with by uniform.
As a rule if it's serious stuff, domestic related or denied the CPS make the decision, everything else is decided by Police


Charging decisions for all but relatively minor offences are made by the CPS and the CPS love a slam dunk case. Anything that might be 50/50 or worse at court they seem very reluctant to charge.

Another underfunded, overworked and out gunned public service.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby bellwhiff » Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:07 pm

Spiritater wrote:Yes, that's the point I trying to make whiffy. To give t'plod the power to decide whether you are guilty or not opens a pretty rotten can o'worms.

They'd have field day and could take anyone off the street in the vicinity of a recent crime and say, 'hey you're wearing a hoodie, you've got a bottle of White Storm in your hand and someone's just caved that lad's head in up the street. You're guilty'.

In reality the lad's on his way home from a late shift at work and picked up the bottle to put it in a bin.


Although I suppose a fixed penalty notice is the police being judge jury and executioner.
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Re: Policing costs

Postby The Source » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:54 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
The Source wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
Dan wrote:Is that not the case now mate? When I worked at Newark station all the PC's that came in used to moan about all the paperwork they'd got and that the 'juicy jobs' always go to CID & they felt they were just 'information gathers'. A particular bug bear was that they couldn't even make a decision on who was guilty or not guilty anymore as it was the CPS who did it & they just had to supply the evidence.


And so they shouldn't. That's why we have judge and jury.

Judge & Jury's are for the serious crimes such as GBH, Possession with intent to supply, rape, serious driving offences etc and are heard in Crown Court, the majority of everyday crimes such as assaults, ABH, minor driving offences, some burglaries etc are heard in Magistrates Court.
In my experience CID mainly deal with the Crown Court stuff and domestic burglaries, virtually everything else is dealt with by uniform.
As a rule if it's serious stuff, domestic related or denied the CPS make the decision, everything else is decided by Police

That’s irrelevant. A jury or a magistrate decides guilt or innocence, not the police.

Crossed wires Whiffy, I was referring to Dan's early comment about the investigation side of things and who gets to investigate and who decides whether to Charge or not, you're quite correct though it's the Magistrates or Jury who decide guilt / sentencing etc.
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