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Perspective.....

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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Rob » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:26 pm

Ben Superstag wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:It's rarer than rocking horse poo that I ever disagree with the commentary of the excellent Martin Shaw or Dean Foulkes, but I did tonight when they said that that "Didn't see tonight's result coming."

We have managed 10 from a possible 12 points in the four games previous to tonight, and if we're honest, all of us were scratching our heads wondering how.

We have not performed well enough to have deserved those 10 at all, lucky to draw with Wycombe it should have been a loss, the win at Lincoln whilst an excellent win, a fair result was 0-0 really, it was a dour game with two poor teams going forward. Cambridge the same again.....we were never in the game until the dubious penalty, and everyone admits we didn't deserve a win.

The Grimsby game was probably the one where we deserved a win out of those four, but were we really that great to deserve the flattering 4-1 scoreline? They were poor rather than us getting out of second gear.

I did see it coming, we've only really put in a performance for 85 minutes at home to Luton that can be seen as a "League favourites" performance.

Our luck had to run out eventually, and I knew it was going to be tonight.


You're prominent on here at the moment Rob, are you expecting a pat on the back and a great big 'I told you so' sticker as a sign of your achievement?

If you knew we were gonna get humped last night perhaps you could've helped Evans out by letting him know.

I agree we have been disappointing so far this season performance wise and the points return could definitely be much better, but I don't agree that we looked like we were going to be on the end of a scoreline like this, most games have been tight.

As for the other Rob saying he is close to the sack, what good has sacking managers who now have more restrictions than ever done after 2 months of a new season? If we are floundering around in mid-table come the 23 game mark and don't look like mounting a promotion assault, I'd be inclined to agree, but because we aren't romping the division after 10 games you'd say he's close to the sack? Luton spent hundreds of thousands assembling that team, we are 2 points behind them. We are 2 points from the play offs and 4 points from autos, so in 2 games time things could look very different.


Ben, I'm not saying sack him now but the next half dozen or so games are very important. He clearly has a top 3 budget so if, after 16 games, we are floundering in the bottom half then I think many will think a new man needs to be given time to assess what he has with the Jan window in mind. I don't like Evans, I never will, but I truly want him to succeed here. To date, it has been disappointing, even the uber optimists on here must recognise that!
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby ParisStag » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:58 pm

I've read some raspberrys in my time, but this thread is well and truly up there. Don't know whether to laugh or sigh.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby stagmanrob » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:20 pm

Ben Superstag wrote:
stagmanrob wrote:It's rarer than rocking horse poo that I ever disagree with the commentary of the excellent Martin Shaw or Dean Foulkes, but I did tonight when they said that that "Didn't see tonight's result coming."

We have managed 10 from a possible 12 points in the four games previous to tonight, and if we're honest, all of us were scratching our heads wondering how.

We have not performed well enough to have deserved those 10 at all, lucky to draw with Wycombe it should have been a loss, the win at Lincoln whilst an excellent win, a fair result was 0-0 really, it was a dour game with two poor teams going forward. Cambridge the same again.....we were never in the game until the dubious penalty, and everyone admits we didn't deserve a win.

The Grimsby game was probably the one where we deserved a win out of those four, but were we really that great to deserve the flattering 4-1 scoreline? They were poor rather than us getting out of second gear.

I did see it coming, we've only really put in a performance for 85 minutes at home to Luton that can be seen as a "League favourites" performance.

Our luck had to run out eventually, and I knew it was going to be tonight.


You're prominent on here at the moment Rob, are you expecting a pat on the back and a great big 'I told you so' sticker as a sign of your achievement?

If you knew we were gonna get humped last night perhaps you could've helped Evans out by letting him know.

I agree we have been disappointing so far this season performance wise and the points return could definitely be much better, but I don't agree that we looked like we were going to be on the end of a scoreline like this, most games have been tight.

As for the other Rob saying he is close to the sack, what good has sacking managers who now have more restrictions than ever done after 2 months of a new season? If we are floundering around in mid-table come the 23 game mark and don't look like mounting a promotion assault, I'd be inclined to agree, but because we aren't romping the division after 10 games you'd say he's close to the sack? Luton spent hundreds of thousands assembling that team, we are 2 points behind them. We are 2 points from the play offs and 4 points from autos, so in 2 games time things could look very different.


Grimsby were crap and the result flattered us, Lincoln had our old strike force that we got rid of for good reason and wouldn't have scored if we played all night, Wycombe should have scored a few if it wasn't for Logan, and Cambridge were the better side here and shoyld never have lost, it was robbery on our part.
The perfomances have not been there, Wycombe should have been a 2 or 3 nil scoreline like the Cheltenham one would you not agree? Signs have been there for weeks.

A good side picks up points when they play poorly, and I was delighted we were doing so, I was starting to believe that it meant we were truly starting to show that we must be a good side. However, really good sides recognise that the performance was poor, and do their utmost to rectify it, you can't be crap for consecutive games and expect that results will continue to go for you. That's my issue. Evans has seemingly allowed the results to paper over the cracks of the poor performances, and not addressed the supposed football that's been served up because he must think his luck was going to continue.
If you think we were going to continue playing like we have been, and carry on nicking points then more fool you mate, a beating was certainly on the cards you could see it comimg a mile off.

He has the best squad at his disposal in the whole division, he has the best budget afforded to any manager in the club's history. He has overnight stays at clubs not much more than two hours down the road. I was expecting him to be able to get these players to put in some sort of a performance after several lacklustre ones.....after all he has the pedigree and success to suggest he can identify it and rectify it when things aren't right. But after 10 games we are no closer to knowing what our best 11 is, or even what system fits all of the top quality signings we have made to get the best out of them.
For JR's outlay, he's having his pants pulled down at the moment, and although I'm not calling for his head, I can't believe how crap Evans has been with the tools he has been given thus far, he should have found some sort of solution by now or at least be showing signs of finding one.
His solution will be to start alienating good players and put the wheels in motion for more signings in January though, that's what he does.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Terry Eccles Was God » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:18 pm

ParisStag wrote:I've read some raspberrys in my time, but this thread is well and truly up there. Don't know whether to laugh or sigh.

Both...people who just thought we would sign a load of players and then just sit at the top of the league as of right for the whole season were being naive at best. People who bought into the hype need to calm down a bit.

Im focused on the positives, still early days and plenty of time to get better, we are only a couple of points off the pace, we have a good squad with depth which will count more as the season goes on, experienced manager (albeit controversial) with proven track record of success, owners fully behind the club and hopefully fan base that will get behind the team as things improve on the field and new fans attracted if we are successful. Still plenty of cause for optimism despite the doom and gloom.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:38 pm

why are people harping on about results that we won saying we shouldn't have won, or they were crap. doesn't matter how it happens, if we win, i'm happy. we just need to understand we had a bad day at the office. it happens. it's league 2 for crying out loud. i understand the football hasnt been great recently, but we havent done THAT bad considering we have 16 points on the board.

if we win on saturday, you lot will be hailing evans as our king again and will forget about the cheltenham result. its just the way it goes
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby stagmanrob » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:30 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:why are people harping on about results that we won saying we shouldn't have won, or they were crap. doesn't matter how it happens, if we win, i'm happy. we just need to understand we had a bad day at the office. it happens. it's league 2 for crying out loud. i understand the football hasnt been great recently, but we havent done THAT bad considering we have 16 points on the board.

if we win on saturday, you lot will be hailing evans as our king again and will forget about the cheltenham result. its just the way it goes

I'm not complaining about the points on the board, I'm not complaining that we've had a bad day at the office....it happens to the best. I just can't believe a manager like Evans who constantly bigs himself up and talks up his own abilities, hasn't recognised that the performances/ football on show hasn't been good for a while win,lose or draw, and hasn't even attempted to change anything other than bombing the odd player out here and there to rectify it.
He is the one after all who said he would sooner win games 5-4 rather than grinding out 1-0 wins. That implies we'd play attacking gung-ho football. We can't be any further from that style at the moment if we tried.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Keep it Simple » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:32 am

All fair points Rob , and well made. It's a discussion board.
Regarding taking a long time for sides to gel and play good football, and expecting to be top etc.
Well I did expect us to be top 3 for all the signings and sackings and big talk. It's not took Nolan long has it?
I am of the opinion as well that come Jan, SE will attempt to radically alter the playing staff, as he did last January. It's what he does to find his magic formula.
Saturday will be a watershed for him, as if we do get beaten badly, I think he will find himself under the spotlight from the stands and in the Boardroom.
I also won't be hailing SE as a king if the result goes for us, do you really think all who are questioning the performances and strategy as that fickle? 5 years of success since I started coming in 1973 has seen to that.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Rob » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:16 am

Terry Eccles Was God wrote:
ParisStag wrote:I've read some raspberrys in my time, but this thread is well and truly up there. Don't know whether to laugh or sigh.

Both...people who just thought we would sign a load of players and then just sit at the top of the league as of right for the whole season were being naive at best. People who bought into the hype need to calm down a bit.

Im focused on the positives, still early days and plenty of time to get better, we are only a couple of points off the pace, we have a good squad with depth which will count more as the season goes on, experienced manager (albeit controversial) with proven track record of success, owners fully behind the club and hopefully fan base that will get behind the team as things improve on the field and new fans attracted if we are successful. Still plenty of cause for optimism despite the doom and gloom.


I didn't think we'd be top and thought it would take time for the side to gel, nevertheless, I am disappointed with our start to the season, not necessarily in terms of points gained but the sheer lack of style and imagination in our play. If I could see where Evans was going then perhaps I would share your optimism - at the moment sorry to say I don't - more worryingly, I am not sure he knows either.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Sneag » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:22 am

BSP winning season first 10 games, we had 16 points but had also lost 4 games including 3 absolute batterings. Stagsnet was equally gloomy then.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Spiritater » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 am

First season back in FL after 10 games we had 18 points (inc beating the sheep) went down hill pretty fast after that.

ATM it's 1.6 points a game, would we make the PO's if we were to continue on that vein of form?
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby oldweststander » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:30 am

Early days and everyone on this thread have made good valid points.
I too am a little dismayed at our overall performances but 16 pts is a good foundation to build on.

Yes, I remember how we fell away following the 1-0 win at Cheaterfield, a repeat of that scenario would be unacceptable.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Terry Eccles Was God » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:01 am

Rob wrote:
Terry Eccles Was God wrote:
ParisStag wrote:I've read some raspberrys in my time, but this thread is well and truly up there. Don't know whether to laugh or sigh.

Both...people who just thought we would sign a load of players and then just sit at the top of the league as of right for the whole season were being naive at best. People who bought into the hype need to calm down a bit.

Im focused on the positives, still early days and plenty of time to get better, we are only a couple of points off the pace, we have a good squad with depth which will count more as the season goes on, experienced manager (albeit controversial) with proven track record of success, owners fully behind the club and hopefully fan base that will get behind the team as things improve on the field and new fans attracted if we are successful. Still plenty of cause for optimism despite the doom and gloom.


I didn't think we'd be top and thought it would take time for the side to gel, nevertheless, I am disappointed with our start to the season, not necessarily in terms of points gained but the sheer lack of style and imagination in our play. If I could see where Evans was going then perhaps I would share your optimism - at the moment sorry to say I don't - more worryingly, I am not sure he knows either.


Im not advocating blind faith though! Im also concerned about the level of some of the performances, but I think with Evans experience, he will work it out, hopefully sooner rather than later. In some respects, by signing so many players he has given himself this headache and I am hoping that as he settles on his preferred team, or at least midfield, the quality will improve.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby london amber stag » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:00 pm

Sneag wrote:BSP winning season first 10 games, we had 16 points but had also lost 4 games including 3 absolute batterings. Stagsnet was equally gloomy then.


Yes but the doom and gloom has been taken to a whole new level after Tuesday night!!
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Sneag » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:26 pm

london amber stag wrote:
Sneag wrote:BSP winning season first 10 games, we had 16 points but had also lost 4 games including 3 absolute batterings. Stagsnet was equally gloomy then.


Yes but the doom and gloom has been taken to a whole new level after Tuesday night!!


But how does the state of the team & squad compare with one that got twatted at Gateshead & Ebbsfleet?
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby stagmanrob » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:39 pm

Sneag wrote:
london amber stag wrote:
Sneag wrote:BSP winning season first 10 games, we had 16 points but had also lost 4 games including 3 absolute batterings. Stagsnet was equally gloomy then.


Yes but the doom and gloom has been taken to a whole new level after Tuesday night!!


But how does the state of the team & squad compare with one that got twatted at Gateshead & Ebbsfleet?

A Grand Canyon sized chasm between the two in terms of both quality and cost. Ulitmately that comes with the same amount of added pressure too. We also knew what we had with Coxy, there was no dressing up the fact he played crap football. Although it was gloomy on here at the time, there was always that little chink of light at the end of the tunnel that Coxy had gone on an amazing unbeaten run the previous season to take us into the playoffs....with one or two saying he could very easily repeat that again....and to his credit he did.

There's nothing to suggest Evans couldn't do the same as Coxy did and go on a run. Our squad depth should mean that when every other team is riddled with players in the treatment room, we can cope better if we have the same scenario without a massive drop in quality in our first XI.
The huge problem is though that Coxy's brand of football worked in the BSP. It never did at League 2 level and that's why he had to move on. At this moment in time we are still playing a Paul Cox style of football with no signs of changing it, which is worrying because none of us expected that from an Evans and Raynor duo.

Whatever he did to drag that 85 minute level of performance out of the players against Luton, he needs to be trying to get back to....and just tweaking it here and there to see us over the line when the players run out of steam at the end.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Rob » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:48 pm

stagmanrob wrote:
Sneag wrote:
london amber stag wrote:
Sneag wrote:BSP winning season first 10 games, we had 16 points but had also lost 4 games including 3 absolute batterings. Stagsnet was equally gloomy then.


Yes but the doom and gloom has been taken to a whole new level after Tuesday night!!


But how does the state of the team & squad compare with one that got twatted at Gateshead & Ebbsfleet?

A Grand Canyon sized chasm between the two in terms of both quality and cost. Ulitmately that comes with the same amount of added pressure too. We also knew what we had with Coxy, there was no dressing up the fact he played crap football. Although it was gloomy on here at the time, there was always that little chink of light at the end of the tunnel that Coxy had gone on an amazing unbeaten run the previous season to take us into the playoffs....with one or two saying he could very easily repeat that again....and to his credit he did.

There's nothing to suggest Evans couldn't do the same as Coxy did and go on a run. Our squad depth should mean that when every other team is riddled with players in the treatment room, we can cope better if we have the same scenario without a massive drop in quality in our first XI.
The huge problem is though that Coxy's brand of football worked in the BSP. It never did at League 2 level and that's why he had to move on. At this moment in time we are still playing a Paul Cox style of football with no signs of changing it, which is worrying because none of us expected that from an Evans and Raynor duo.

Whatever he did to drag that 85 minute level of performance out of the players against Luton, he needs to be trying to get back to....and just tweaking it here and there to see us over the line when the players run out of steam at the end.


Completely agree and yet more proof that if your name is Rob you talk a lot of sense :D
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Amber Andy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:03 pm

What a depressing thread. Even the thought of sacking SE is ridiculous. Yes the points about his antics on the side of the pitch, the way he rotates players and the cost to JR are quite valid. BUT, we all knew this before SE was signed up. This is how SE has always operated, so no great surprises there. I was not keen on his appointment at the beginning, and thought that money would have been better spent trying to prize away a Cook, Hill or a Tidsdale. The problem is the expectations are too high. Money and past glories doesn't always achieve success. One thing for sure SE is very hard working, and will be striving to put things right.He needs the time to get this bunch of talented players, playing as a team. I can remember it took the great Ian Greaves more than a season to get things together.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:06 pm

If people want perspective take a look at exeter last season, they started absolutely dreadful and looked like they were going to go down. In just over half a season they rose from the relegation zone to be in the top 7 most of the season. Imagine how they felt after that, and we've only lost 2 games so far and this is how you lot react? It's quite embarrassing, the season finishes next year. Not in september. Plenty of time and some fans need to learn how to be graceful in defeat - something that a lot of you are calling evans out for.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby daddycool » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:39 pm

Yes ,you would expect Tisdale to get the sack shortly after two defeats on the trot.
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:52 pm

daddycool wrote:Yes ,you would expect Tisdale to get the sack shortly after two defeats on the trot.



A lot of exeter fans wanted him gone during their bad spell, but he turned it around. Not saying evans will get the sack because he won't. we just don't need a meltdown everytime we lose lol
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Amberheart » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:00 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:If people want perspective take a look at exeter last season, they started absolutely dreadful and looked like they were going to go down. In just over half a season they rose from the relegation zone to be in the top 7 most of the season. Imagine how they felt after that, and we've only lost 2 games so far and this is how you lot react? It's quite embarrassing, the season finishes next year. Not in september. Plenty of time and some fans need to learn how to be graceful in defeat - something that a lot of you are calling evans out for.

Good post !
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby tinman » Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:39 pm

I don't believe realistic fans are unhappy with the league position at the end of September. Lots of successful teams grind out scrappy 1-0 wins. It's just the quality of football that has been served up, win, lose or draw.

My prediction pre season was to finish 9th in the table after a poor start.. I have no reason to feel any more or less confident about that prediction
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Chander Lear » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:10 pm

tinman wrote:I don't believe realistic fans are unhappy with the league position at the end of September. Lots of successful teams grind out scrappy 1-0 wins. It's just the quality of football that has been served up, win, lose or draw.

My prediction pre season was to finish 9th in the table after a poor start.. I have no reason to feel any more or less confident about that prediction


Exactly, I couldnt give a crap that we lost. It happns. On Tuesday it was the mannor in which we lost and all of the variables around it.

Most annoyingly making arrangements to get out of work to watch a team that couldnt be arsed
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:11 pm

Chander Lear wrote:
tinman wrote:I don't believe realistic fans are unhappy with the league position at the end of September. Lots of successful teams grind out scrappy 1-0 wins. It's just the quality of football that has been served up, win, lose or draw.

My prediction pre season was to finish 9th in the table after a poor start.. I have no reason to feel any more or less confident about that prediction


Exactly, I couldnt give a crap that we lost. It happns. On Tuesday it was the mannor in which we lost and all of the variables around it.

Most annoyingly making arrangements to get out of work to watch a team that couldnt be arsed



That's the risk you take supporting a football club! Especially mansfield :D
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Re: Perspective.....

Postby Terry Eccles Was God » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:18 pm

Chander Lear wrote:
tinman wrote:I don't believe realistic fans are unhappy with the league position at the end of September. Lots of successful teams grind out scrappy 1-0 wins. It's just the quality of football that has been served up, win, lose or draw.

My prediction pre season was to finish 9th in the table after a poor start.. I have no reason to feel any more or less confident about that prediction


Exactly, I couldnt give a crap that we lost. It happns. On Tuesday it was the mannor in which we lost and all of the variables around it.

Most annoyingly making arrangements to get out of work to watch a team that couldnt be arsed

Its unusual for an Evans team to go through the motions, they usually play high tempo, pressing football.

I bet they come out of the blocks fast on Saturday, Evans looked like a wounded animal in his interview after the game, I would imagine the players have been feeling his wrath ever since.
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