{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Little perspective....

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Little perspective....

Postby geoffhill » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:28 pm

Agree with that.It is interesting that according to the fans the best players are on the bench.This is often the case with supporters.Evans will sort it out don't worry.
geoffhill
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:21 pm

Re: Little perspective....

Postby Rob » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:21 pm

Im not the real OND wrote:Just because people have pointed out that a player has played badly or a manager has made a mistake doesn't automatically mean that they are looking for a scapegoat or an individual to blame.

I suppose that this is the internet and therefore it should be expected but it seems to be common place whereby people think that any view that differs from their own is an abomination of free speech and must be defended to the death whether it be through insult, ridicule or the polar opposite of any argument. There can only be Black and White (remember him?), whereas actually the majority of people are trying to make reasoned point. The idea of having a debate and accepting difference is becoming a lost art form.


All very true, you express a view that not everything is fantastic and the same few jump in to tell you that you aren't a real fan. Last night was awful and there were plenty of awful performances, including the manager in my opinion. I don't think he knows his best team and I don't think he is picking the best 11, this forum is exactly the place to debate that - this can be done in a grown up manner, or as is often the case, like a school ground spat.
User avatar
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2999
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Re: Little perspective....

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:01 pm

Rob wrote:
Im not the real OND wrote:Just because people have pointed out that a player has played badly or a manager has made a mistake doesn't automatically mean that they are looking for a scapegoat or an individual to blame.

I suppose that this is the internet and therefore it should be expected but it seems to be common place whereby people think that any view that differs from their own is an abomination of free speech and must be defended to the death whether it be through insult, ridicule or the polar opposite of any argument. There can only be Black and White (remember him?), whereas actually the majority of people are trying to make reasoned point. The idea of having a debate and accepting difference is becoming a lost art form.


All very true, you express a view that not everything is fantastic and the same few jump in to tell you that you aren't a real fan. Last night was awful and there were plenty of awful performances, including the manager in my opinion. I don't think he knows his best team and I don't think he is picking the best 11, this forum is exactly the place to debate that - this can be done in a grown up manner, or as is often the case, like a school ground spat.


I'd agree that Evans is yet to demonstrate some of his acclaimed qualities.
Edders - 9-2 not a serious forecast
User avatar
EdwinstoweStag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4537
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:24 pm
Location: North Notts

Re: Little perspective....

Postby Spiritater » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:08 am

I have to say I'm beginning to fall off the fence on the side of the 'this team isn't all it's cracked up to be'. I've seen the 'A' team play 3 times now (no I didn't make it Tues as accompanying my Mum for some scan results came first) and apart from small patches we do not look anything special. The first half against Loooooun was sublime stuff and tbh that is what I expected the 'norm' to be but as yet it's just a glimpse of what it could be. The rest of what I've seen so far is no better than stuff we played last season if that.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 15928
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Little perspective....

Postby tmwilson » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:31 am

Spiritater wrote:I have to say I'm beginning to fall off the fence on the side of the 'this team isn't all it's cracked up to be'. I've seen the 'A' team play 3 times now (no I didn't make it Tues as accompanying my Mum for some scan results came first) and apart from small patches we do not look anything special. The first half against Loooooun was sublime stuff and tbh that is what I expected the 'norm' to be but as yet it's just a glimpse of what it could be. The rest of what I've seen so far is no better than stuff we played last season if that.


Some of tge hest teams I saw last season didn't get promoted . I wasn't over impressed with any if tge promotes teams when I saw them . It's not always about the performances . We have to turn the draws into wins but we've been unluckily beaten once so far .
It's slender line at the moment . A few of the games we could of ended up losing but we could also be in the top two positions
I never expected Evans team to be over exciting . I expected a hard working never give up attitude and I think we have that .
My only concern is the constant swapping of the team .
tmwilson
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: Little perspective....

Postby Jimstag » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:28 am

Some good points made by many on here, as many have said we're not far behind and still yet to fully get going. Tuesday was tough conditions that suited wycombe's style of play and given their away record it wasn't a bad point, but some will not get that perspective.

The best teams at this level find a way to win and aren't always pretty but play as a team where the sum of the parts are greater than the individuals (I always think of Burton as an example) we've got some great parts for our team but I think Evans is still to decide on his best team.

Logan and Mirfin have taken a while to settle but we're starting to see performances from the faith Evans has placed in them and hopefully we'll see the same from Hemmings, personally I liked his link up play on Saturday but thought Tuesday's game suited Rose more.
Jimstag
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:09 am

Re: Little perspective....

Postby oldweststander » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:38 am

Hemmings is a good player, IMO better than Rose.
He will come good if supplied with the ball.
To say he looked disinterested, at this point, is insulting.
oldweststander
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1882
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Re: Little perspective....

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:55 am

It is a law of football that the best players are always on the bench (or left out of the squad) after every defeat or even a home draw. :lol:
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Little perspective....

Postby Marky Mark » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:08 am

Im not the real OND wrote:
victor A block wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Im not the real OND wrote:
Marky Mark wrote:The challenge Evans has got is that he’s acquired good, creative midfielders, and good strikers but is now trying to shoe-horn all of them into the team Fantasy Football style, and teams (like Wycombe) will wise up to the fact that all they have to do is flood the midfield and make our good, creative midfield players spend all of their time tracking, rather than creating – which is stifling their strengths and making them look average. The only way that Butcher, Mellis and MacDonald (all good individual forward thinking players) are going to play well in the same team together is if you have a really good holding midfielder or two (which isnt Byrom on his own) sat behind them covering and allowing them to get on with going forward. For me, if you’re going to put those 3 midfielders in then you have to sacrifice a forward and go one up front and have someone like Digby and Byrom sat in front of the back 4. But will Evans do that after he’s hammered JR’s door down for 5 strikers?


Its not a system I particularly like but I'm warming to the idea of wing backs. Something like:

-----------------Logan----------------------
------Pearce ----Mirfin---Bennett-----
White-------------------------------Benning
-----------Byrom-------Atkinson-----------
-------------------Mellis-----------------
-----------Angol---------Hemmings-----

It allows the full backs to concentrate on what they are good at going forward, with some added security with an extra Centre half. Bennett and Pearce either side of Mirfin would provide some pace to cover Mirfin.

It took three substitutions for Evans to stumble on it, but midfield looked much stronger with Atkinson alongside Bryom last night.

It allows the luxury of Mellis in behind the front two. I think that front three has some real potential and wouldn't like to see it broken up just yet.

What it does do is leave the plethera of wingers he's signed on the bench. I don't tend to like the system as I don't think it provides enough width but nor does the system he currently using.

Id be amazed if he did change his system but wingbacks and two in midfield seems much more robust than the diamond system he seems to prefer but allows him to keep a front three.


Like the look of that, could also have Macca/Potter in the ten role.


Cant see this myself. Personally I think Anderson is a better player than Atkinson, and the chances of Butcher not playing in the side ( although not overly impressive so far) is probably nil.



Like I said, id be surprised if he changed. Anderson probably is the better player. But as Marky Mark has already said, cramming the best players into a side and hoping for the best is akin to Fantasy Football. Having Atkinson in the middle was the only time last night that the midfield looked balanced and competitive in my opinion.


For what its worth, the team that I would go with (to do a job, not necessarily the best 1-11 that we have) is:

-------------------------Logan-------------------

White/Bennett-----Pearce-----Mirfin/Diamond-------Hunt/Benning

--------------------Byrom------Digby--------------------------------

-------------------Butcher------MacDonald-------------------------

-----------------------Mellis----------------------------------

----------------------Angol-------------------------------------

The full backs would be more attacking than defending and provide supporting width, and work with the holding midfield of Byrom/Digby who would be more defence than attack and would sit and cover the 3 midfielders and the 2 full-backs, although Byrom would push forward when the full backs arent. The front 4 do what they want, with support from the full-backs and protection from the holding midfielders.

I appreciate that this isn't our best 1-11 on paper and the balance of the formation doesn't reflect the balance of the squad, but it feels like the best team to do the best job given each players strengths.
Controlled & Clueless. If this is the big life, well I ain't looking to live it.
@watski
User avatar
Marky Mark
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:48 pm
Location: Liverpool

Re: Little perspective....

Postby tillydog123 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:35 am

All valid points and most of us all a little nervous over the start and it does sometimes seem like we have made progress player wise but the results are not there much yet to see this and strikers still posing questions as to their suitability.
The strikers last season were the biggest issue!!
I do not think for one minute we would be top of the table and beating every team in sight but I did think we would have been capable of at least another couple of wins by now.
The settled team issue is a big one and needs sorting out soon and I thought by now that SE with his real football knowledge and experience would know what his best 11 was.
I really hope we can progress as at the moment we look like an average to good mid table team with brief glimpses of excellence.
JR and CR have done their bit as always and hope that the players and SE who have been provided with the best tools that money can buy at our level is not let down and ends up hanging upside down on the stranded rollercoaster at the end of the season.
tillydog123
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:28 am

Re: Little perspective....

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:52 am

I mean, going back to carlisle and luton... we score 2 penalties and we'll nearly be top of the league and no one would be worried or even talking about these things. we're not far off... patience
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2363
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 pm

Re: Little perspective....

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:10 pm

Spiritater wrote:I have to say I'm beginning to fall off the fence on the side of the 'this team isn't all it's cracked up to be'. I've seen the 'A' team play 3 times now (no I didn't make it Tues as accompanying my Mum for some scan results came first) and apart from small patches we do not look anything special. The first half against Loooooun was sublime stuff and tbh that is what I expected the 'norm' to be but as yet it's just a glimpse of what it could be. The rest of what I've seen so far is no better than stuff we played last season if that.



Personally Tater, and i'm totally guessing, but i reckon most of the team development so far has probably been geared around sorting the defence? I'm basing that on how worryingly frail it appeared to be earlier in the season. I'm not saying we will see a marked improvement going forwards from now on, but if the focus was on shoring up the back then it might explain why our attacking still seems ineffective

I guess we will know in the next half dozen games or so.....
Perfection took almost a week before I mastered it
User avatar
MutinyOnTheCounty
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:33 pm

Previous

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests